Body (or lack of it)

For documenting and technical details of T25 restorations and major repairs
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby lhd » 17 Jul 2010, 08:06

I think it's ace.....
Great to see whats underneath it all and how it fits together.

Rob.
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby Plasticman » 17 Jul 2010, 21:48

well been a good day but where to begin, The osr wing behind the cover panal was well shot so a new piece was let in along the full length, most of it isnt seen so I havent gone to too much trouble on the appearance of it but have tried where its seen, I had to make the right end out of 3 pieces so it looks the same as original.these are before any grinding etc
Image
the left side looked like this
Image now its this
Image
I had allready done most of the inner wing repairs but had to wait till the wing itself was trial fitted to make a template and then make and fit this last bit
Image
and from the other side
Image
This maybe I should insert in an earier post but anyway it shows the osr pillar bottom, I have marked the extent of the thick stiffening plate and its relationship to the pillar,jack point and suspension pick up area, it is a very important item
and has to be in near perfect condition, you can see the pillar reinforces it and untill I did this repair I was not aware of how important the innerwing area,in particular the 2 picks above was in adding to the integrity of this assembly, I know it is a common rot area but just patching it may help an motc pass it would I think only be a cosmetic repair?

Image
So this is now the prepared inner wing , it has been grit blasted after acid treatment then 3M weld thru,
Image
Ribs welde to the inside of the wing to weld to the inner wing, I have added these just under the slight swage line to keep any distortion to a minimum,
Image
The alternative would be to weld larger pieces on here but that would be making work for yourself trying to join it to the remains of the old item, if you didnt do it this way then you would be faced with a difficult weld of a loose fillet.
Final trial fit of wing prior to welding on in the morning.
many thanks to all for the encouragement.
mike
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby Cableguy » 18 Jul 2010, 09:40

That's awesome skill there mate. A mate, now retired used to restore cars for a living and the stuff he fixed up was unbelievable. I wanted him to drive one of his cars on our wedding. I took my then girlfriend to have a look and she was horrified at what he planned to drive. It was an old Cadillac and it was a total "pooh" heap.
We weren't allowed to see it until the day and to say she was worried was an understatement.
It looked like a brand new car, it was astonishing!!
Great thread, nice to see some old school talent.
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby dugcati » 18 Jul 2010, 11:39

its soo good too see another bus as rotten as mine was when I started on it - keep chipping away at it as it's all worth it in the end :wink:

I'm off to beat mine up again soon!
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby Plasticman » 18 Jul 2010, 17:22

yes I remember your epic :rofl didnt think mine was that bad till I got into it,
set about fitting the rear wing this lunchtime probably the most difficult panal to repair/fit I reckon anyhow got it on
and at the same time welded a piece into the side of the os panal
Image
it really dont look that pretty and I was in two minds to hack it out and start again but it is straight and true and as its going to be leaded up its going to do,
inner arch
Imageand
Image
at least with having most of the side panal off I could weld the rear wing on and then the side panal to that in the same order as vw, it can be done with side panal in place but a different technique would be needed.
Image
Tacked the sill in place and will braze this seam down to the bottom as it will be more durable and in any case will be panal guarded.and haver cut the first piece of the floor top/sill closer
Image
Image and here
Image
was going to fit the side panal bottom but its 1/4" too tall so will guillotene it tommorow, I could just use tin snips but want to keep a clean straight cut.
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby Plasticman » 19 Jul 2010, 22:42

Sill fitted permanently and I chose against brazing it externally for a few reasons, also if it ever has to have work there again the braze gets right in the way of welding,
Cut the4 side panal btm down and notched and slotted it for curving
Image you can just make out the slight radius in the panal.if you were just to slot it then you would end up with a 50p bit shape, for tighter curves a larger hole is drilled, panal now clamped on
Image
Image
fed up clamping it then round to check the allignment and back again, mind if I didnt get it right then it would forever be in the wrong place.I thinks it right cos it isnt moving now,
Image
Image
it fits quite well and the seams are straight so a light skim of lead and job will be done,
seen from the inside
Image
Image

and showing the sill btm
Image
I have cut the plates to join up the floor top to the sill seam and will first treat the interior and also make a couple of hole to spray the waxoyl into
I will repair or remake the strengthening rib and fit it at a nearby point, then its onto light front arches and frontpanal and screen, screen surround will be perfect as it looks it, well thats my wishfull thinking as I want to spray it and use it for bank holliday..
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby CovKid » 19 Jul 2010, 22:59

Blimey, you put the floor back too Mike. I didn't bother on mine as it seemed a good way to let the vehicle breath and an easy route out for any moisture :D

Also makes changing that panel (ie subsequent damage) a bit easier. Rob and I couldn't decide whether it added sufficient strength to merit adding it in so we didn't bother.
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby Plasticman » 19 Jul 2010, 23:06

You really should have that floor piece in, with it you have a structural box for all its benefits , the inner sill has oval drain holes, and a couple in the top to add the spray of whatever you use and it is then happy enough, dont think it need to breathe so to speak. this is one of the problems of folk fitting the over sill that does just that and wraps over this structure and is purely cosmetic,
if you want to add the closer you can always do it at your leisure .but I really would fit it. :ok
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby CovKid » 20 Jul 2010, 01:11

The issue I have with it is that a few owners have verified that the window on that side (depending on model, sliding windows etc) sees water ingress (as well as condensation from fridge etc). That was evident on mine too - leaking window and never had a fridge (it was a Caravelle minibus). I guess I might be happy with a panel put back in if I could be sure it drained properly. As you know, under normal circumstances theres absolutely nowhere for the water to go which is why that side rots out in the first place and unfortunately for most owners (particularly those with cupboards on that side), the first clue you get is when the outer sill parts company with the side panel above with a nice rusty/rotted seam. On that basis, if and when I do put one in, it'll have to have some kind of water channel.

The panel I replaced outer sill with has no horizontal seam so does allow any moisture to drain straight out. No problem tacking to it of course but for now I'm happier with an open space than a fresh spot for the rot to start - if you get my drift.

The same could be said of the great lump at the front behind front bumper which also lacks drainage and eventually sees the bottom of the front panel rot out. Rob and I came to the conclusion that the best solution would be to drill a hole straight through (top to bottom) and put a length of steel pipe in there, welded and smoothed off at the top to provide a straight drainage path. To be fair, there are loads of traps like this - think of the battery trays. One assumes that had the T25 been in production still, VW would have remodelled these areas so its a case of finding the cause and finding a solution - without creating another headache somewhere else I think. Food for thought anyway.
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby Plasticman » 20 Jul 2010, 07:55

Couldnt agree more Rob, on mine it has the usual glass on the outer skin and a seal on the inner to finnish the gap off, even if we assume that the window will never ever :rofl leak there is the greater problem of condensation on the window, this is evident on all my rear windows and the run off goes exactly where we know, straight down ,

Now I dont think its possible to stop this condensation so what to do with it, well I take on board what you say, butwhat if folk have furniture installed so access is not that good, then water is going to find itss way down into the open box and will still cause rust etc and is harder to deal with IMHO, this as you point out applies to the rear side windows as well,

You have given me food for thought, so I can rebuild as is/was or try at this stage to modify things, so I will do the latter, I will fit the top floor plate and be happy that treated it will last ok but the water that will run down needs someplace to go, so I am going to look at wheling a groove/channel into this plate and fitting it to a drainage tube straight through the bottom of the inner sill, say 1/2" tube so it wont block and a flap over the exit like the floor vents under fridge to stop much getting thrown up,

Same in the rear wwings, I will provide somewhere for it to run off/out, I have already provided for the pillars to drain out so will add to this.


Front xmember, your right about that and I will investigate this week,
thanks for input
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby Plasticman » 20 Jul 2010, 16:42

Well done as you suggested! so if it screws up you can put it right :ok Ive finnished the new front piece out of heavier guage sheet and added a drain channal/channel yes channel I think and was going to fit it to the underside but angles were wrong and it really was a toss-up as to under or over with regard to future repairs.
Image
and
Image
have to make sure it sat just right as I wouldnt want to redo it, heres the pipe heading for the point of no return
Image
all fits ok so welded it up, Ive spotted it through as this is how it was originally and seems a neat a way as any
Image
Image
heres the steel drain tube which passes right through the box section and protrudes about an inch or so below the inner sill
Image
Image
will dress it up with a grinder so fluids will flow..
the channel looks like it will flow that way, I will ofcourse seal and treat the side panal btm , I will not be fitting the horizontal stiffening rib but will make a verticle one as this will do the job and not act as a water shelf the 3 x 5/8"holes are to use for the waxoyling and I have rubber gommits to fit.
thats the lot for today
Mike
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby CovKid » 20 Jul 2010, 18:11

Definately better solution Mike. Gives me enthusiasm to refit my panel now. Once its painted I'd be tempted to get a hand sprayer and see if it works. The other good thing about the pipe is if you carry a gas bottle and it does leak, theres a neat exit at floor level for it to go. :D

By the way, you know the oval drain holes in the inner sill? I reworked these with a cold chisel to allow any water in sill section to flow out easier. I also painted the inside of that whole section with hammerite to make it water tight, effectively tanking it. Thats kindas why I left the small section of floor out. Mind you, if I ever followed in Hammonds footsteps and took it on the lake, I'd go down faster than he did :rofl
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby Plasticman » 20 Jul 2010, 20:40

ive done the inside with vactan and will waxoyl it, llready modded the oval holes are they are a touch of the bottom as you know, when done I will try it with a hand douche!! :rofl
have lpg leisure tank in the rearside so dont need the drop out here. the pipe is big (smallest I had to hand) but will be able to poke it clear from underside if it gets blocked.
Fords and a few others used to have a rubber 'nipple' for dash back/ scuttle draining seemed to work ok at first then as rubber aged it ceased to flex and open, so not a new idea, will give some thought to the rear of front bumper,
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby boatbuilder » 20 Jul 2010, 21:02

Just want to say thanks for the photos ...I'm expecting some panels in the post any day now and have similar (although hopefully not jsut as bad) jobs to tackle.
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Re: Body (or lack of it)

Postby CovKid » 20 Jul 2010, 21:39

Yes its an excellent thread and also an opportunity to think outside the box in terms of minimising any future rot. After all, not much point in replacing areas if you just end up with the same problems later on. :D
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