2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

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itchyfeet
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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by itchyfeet »

oil pump to cover gaskets are all too thick, the groove, I'm told, is to keep the gasket oiled, wet, and sealed.
I made my own gasket from thin paper. Look at the end float limits.

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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by itchyfeet »

circlip pliers for crank as reccomended by Mojoh, 45 21 200
http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216 ... oupID=1454" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by 123-jn »

To keep the gasket wet and sealed eh? I never thought of that. I think I have some very thin gasket paper somewhere I'll see if it is thinner than the gasket that came with my pump. The one in the reinz gasket set seems slightly thicker still. Those circlip pliers look good, I might collect some of those.
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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by silverbullet »

The replacement gaskets in the Elring kits are more like board than paper! The ones that come with the Shadek pumps are closer to the correct thickness.

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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by 123-jn »

Well today I did a trial case together with crank and cam in their new bearings. All turns beautifully. No tight spots. So very pleased with that. Next I got the cylinders and used some cutting paste on the base rim, turning them back and forward about half inch (until the lugs hit the bolts) either way to try to get them to meet nicely with the case. The O ring will seal them at the base but it can't hurt having a second line of defence.
Then I painted the case halves in a nice blue. There is one photo taken without the flash this shows the true colour, the flash makes it look much lighter!!

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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by sarran1955 »

Hello,

itchyfeet wrote:
sarran1955 wrote:Hello,

Non bearing scratching awful circlip pliers.. :shock:

Early on here.. 1'30"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxykQb957xU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These are great.. well worth investing.. say Hi to Greg Friedman from me.. :)

Cordialement,

:ok


ok so I got reverse opening circlip pliers from the states very reasonable but not the make?
video is not good enough to read it?

You didn't get to the end credits.... :(

Cordialement,

:ok
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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by 123-jn »

I was putting the conrods on the crank today. On tightening up they should fall slowly under their own weight, Mine were a bit fast for my liking so I checked all the measurements again. Journals bang on, big ends on rods bang on, bearings german and should be bang on standard so I put one on with a real good layer of oil, it was very slightly slower so I will have to assume all is ok. I could try some plastigauge but I reckon we are ok!!! I'm just a perfectionist occasionally. The extra bit of spline on the new non stretch big end bolts is a pain as getting them apart again is a real pain!!! Anyway I have now fitted them all hopefully in the right places with some nice assembly lube. Torque was 44NM which is around 33Lb FT (always tempted to add a couple for good measure, have to restrain myself). Next it will be refitting the oil pick up pipe and putting the case halves together. The pick up pipe doesn't seem to use an 'o' ring or anything to seal it in the hole. Is that Normal? I'm sure I remember an O ring on an old Aircooled? There is no groove on here.

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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by itchyfeet »

Can you please measure what sort of side to side movement is there on a fresh setup? (I mean side to side movement movement at little end)

Just wondering if there is any way to judge the wear of a big end when doing the heads alone.
You can only really guage by con rod falling or side to side movement.
Never seen one falling slowly by their own weight so that must be a fresh setup only but seen plenty of side to side movement indicating worn big end.

thanks
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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by 123-jn »

Hi, The side to side movement on the big end is 0.3mm on all journals which appears to be as expected according to all I have spoken to. This is required for thermal expansion. It would be impossible to gauge from outside the crank case how much big end wear there is as the con rods always pivot side to side and this is limited by the side of the rod touching the crank faces either side more than it is by the bearing clearance. According to measurments my Big ends are bang on as new and the sideways rock is limited by the con rod touching the crank faces. The old big ends when pushed towards the crank and back could just about be felt to have a bit of play whereas these can't, but it was just a very small amount.
OK Ignore that I've just been outside and played with my new set up and an old crank which has done 120,000 miles. The new one allows the con rod to move very slightly at the small end just about enough to contact the crank with the side of the rod but you really have to try and it would rather slide the 0.3mm of the side clearance. (these are well oiled with assembly lube). The old crank easily allows the small end to pivot each way and does it so easily it goes knock knock as the rod hits the journal sides. The maximum movement of the small end either way is just over 1mm but it looks and feels like more!!
The small ends on my rods are slightly worn you can feel play if you rock the pins in the bearings. I set up a dial gauge and measured about 3 thou next to the bearing on the pin. I thought this was too much so I took them to my local machine shop who said that there needs to be some play for the oil to keep the surfaces apart. They said mine was towards the bigger end of allowable but was well within service spec and I would be wasting money having them done just for a thousandth or so. They measured up the other end of the rods and declared them to be round not oval so I've left them as they are. The only thing they advised were new non-stretch bolts as they were 'more reliable'? They also advised increasing the torque on the casebolts by 10 lb's or so as apparently they have a habit of coming loose?
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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by 123-jn »

On the same subject , having now dismantled 2 waterboxers both 1.9 and a 1.6 Aircooled I can honestly say that 120,000 miles is enough for a waterboxer bottom end. I'm sure many have run past this but I bet their oil pressure was marginal at hot tickover. The two waterboxers had both covered about 120-130,000 miles and the 1.6 was at 89,000. All the big end shells were down to the copper at least in the centres of the bearings, The mains seemed to fare better still mainly white metal but I wouldn't have put them back in. The centre mains in all cases were the worst with one set showing copper and some delamination. Cam bearings seemed ok-ish in most cases except the thrust faces which were too worn to refit in all engines.
As for the cranks . All three were still bang on spec and have been rebuilt with standard mains and big ends.
When you consider what happens as your oil pressure falls and clearances become larger and the far greater risk of a rod failure or bearing delamination I would never do a top end job only unless the engine is less than 80,000 miles and its only short term!!
The only cam that went back in was the 1.6 which was OK, Both waterboxer cams and the one I got with my 2.1 crank have had pitting and breaking up of the surface of the lobes.
As for pistons I haven't replaced a set yet but I guess if the owner pushed on past 120,000 the chances of this would be higher and higher. I have reused the barrels on all the waterboxers including the 2.1 I'm building. On the 1.6 we went one size bigger.
Hope this helps.
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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by itchyfeet »

Thanks, I haven't had a chance to get out and look at the engines I have but I will do.
I need to rebuild the engine in my van soon I think but first I need to cobble together a runner to keep the van moving.
Great to see some rebuild thread, lots to learn.
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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by 123-jn »

I have just had my liners back from the machine shop after honing, 2 are perfect one has a 'watermark ' that the honing has not completely removed which they say is ok but the last one has a more severe ridge where water must have lay in the barrel and this could not be corrected during honing. They say it is 50/50 whether this one will be ok which is not good enough for me. So I'm left needing a decent 94 mm liner to complete the set. Does anyone have a spare decent one lying around that I could purchase?
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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by CJH »

I think I can help. I was struggling to assemble a set of four that had good top seal grooves and no internal scratching, so in the end I bought a set of new liners. But among the ones I collected I'm pretty sure I've got at least one that's good. And it'll already be honed. Yours for the postage. PM me your address.
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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by 123-jn »

Thanks CJH, That's got me out of a hole!!!
Today I decided to have a go a making an adaptor to attach my kawasaki stainless/alloy exhaust can to the stainless intermediate pipe on my van. Unfortunately it seemed to be the day my 130 amp mig decided not to work but hey I kept the old 90 amp one!!! Well what a mess that made, I just couldn't get the arc to continue into a run and get the penetration so please ignore the awful splodge welding.(wire feed well and truly *******. My welding is not good at the best of times but that gives a whole new meaning to the word awful.
I have made two end plates out of 4mm steel plate one for the kawa end and one for the van end and welded one end on after a fashion. The other end I made a flange for the joiner ring to run against and hopefully it will be almost gas tight. Next I am hoping the Kawasaki exhaust box sounds ok and gives me some back pressure to keep the engine running well.

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Re: 2.1 MV Rebuild DG case!!!

Post by 123-jn »

Another good question. IN the past I have used Elring Dirko S to attach the heads of my waterboxer. This time my gasket kit is a Victor Reinz set which has come with something called Reinzosil instead. Does anyone know how this compares to the Dirko S, Should I use it or should I use the Dirko again?
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