Why no bids ?

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Re: Why no bids ?

Postby clift_d » 02 Aug 2019, 19:04

davidoft1 wrote:My Westy California 1600TD IS 100kmph around 4000rpm, 120kmph at around 4500rpm, that’s where it likes to be


Really? That’s very high revs for those speeds. Typically you’d expect a JX to be geared for 100kph at 3000rpm. Our JX is happiest running at around 2800 - 3000 rpm.
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Re: Why no bids ?

Postby clift_d » 02 Aug 2019, 19:06

Dobble wrote:I guess we're not going to know whats been done until the box is stripped as I doubt Coast VW will have a record of what was done.


No harm in asking - Jon and Pip usually keep tabs on the stuff that goes through the garage.
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Re: Why no bids ?

Postby 937carrera » 02 Aug 2019, 19:37

OK, I dropped the gearbox, final drive and tyre size into my gearbox calculator.

Something's not quite right on the data, as Aidan has suggested.

Firstly, what is the actual engine code, I have sources which say that peak power is 3300 rpm which doesn't sit well with the information that the engine is doing 4000 rpm at 60mph

If we were to accept that the engine actually is doing 4000 rpm at 60 mph, then the gear ratio would need to be around 1.1, which is a long way from the expected 0.78 or 0.85

There is one other scenario, which Aidan will be able to answer. Is it possible to assemble the gear set incorrectly in the gearbox, so that that the part of the gear that should be on the input shaft is on the output shaft. I'll confess, I made that mistake on the first gearbox rebuild I ever did (rear engine non VW) when I was making a couple of ratio changes, which is how I know it is possible. The second rebuild I did went much quicker :lol:

:?: :?: :?:
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Re: Why no bids ?

Postby Dobble » 02 Aug 2019, 20:45

The engine is an AHU with a mechanical pump. I'm thinking that the pulley on the alternator may be the wrong size which would explain why the revs seem high, the alternator looks fairly new too.

We're thinking about taking it for a run this weekend and stopping somewhere over night, Aidan I don't suppose your around at all this weekend to cast you eye over it briefly?
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Re: Why no bids ?

Postby 937carrera » 02 Aug 2019, 21:02

That's what I assumed - this is the source I used to get the torque / power curves

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=291257

Assuming the revs are wrong, then 60 mph would be 3100rpm with a petrol 0.85 ratio

I have done the maths on some options, best speak to Aidan about the best route forward, but the underlying problem seems to be a low revving diesel engine vs a higher revving one.
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Re: Why no bids ?

Postby Dobble » 02 Aug 2019, 21:13

Ok I'll see what Aidan has to say and go from there. Thanks very much for taking the time to look into this I really appreciate it.

When I was looking for the engine code earlier I noticed that the engine was a reconditioned unit built by AW engineering. They had stuck their label over the flat where the engine code it. It was a pain to remove the glue to see the letters but glad it's a recon unit.
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Re: Why no bids ?

Postby clift_d » 02 Aug 2019, 21:45

Dobble wrote:When I was looking for the engine code earlier I noticed that the engine was a reconditioned unit built by AW engineering. They had stuck their label over the flat where the engine code it. It was a pain to remove the glue to see the letters but glad it's a recon unit.


That’s a good sign - AW are pretty much the best diesel re-manufacturers in the UK right now.
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Re: Why no bids ?

Postby silverbullet » 03 Aug 2019, 06:20

4.86 diffs have nice gearing for road work imo, even with oversize tyres.
Your td tacho is definitely set up wrong

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Re: Why no bids ?

Postby jebiga41 » 03 Aug 2019, 08:03

clift_d wrote:
davidoft1 wrote:My Westy California 1600TD IS 100kmph around 4000rpm, 120kmph at around 4500rpm, that’s where it likes to be


Really? That’s very high revs for those speeds. Typically you’d expect a JX to be geared for 100kph at 3000rpm. Our JX is happiest running at around 2800 - 3000 rpm.

definately your tacho is wrong or its a 16 rinning 6.17s check your revs in 3rd gear at 80 km/h :wink:

Aidan wrote:
Just for information the diff code is ADM and the gearbox code is AHF


so if they are 4.86 final drive then they have been modified as they should be 5.43 - so it's a 'cheap' way of doing a TDi box, upping the final drive, if it doesn't do 70 at 3200ish then they have changed the 4th gear from the original 0.78 (probably because it was stuffed, most of the TD 4ths are very tired and won't take a TDi), maybe there's a 0.82 out of a 5 speed maybe there's a 0.85 out of a petrol in there which would mean 60/61 at 3200rpmish which is where the TDi drops off on the power
the rev counter is probably incorrect, unless you are getting the rev info from scangauge ? 4000rpm in a TDi would sound awful
You can calibrate the standard dash rev counter to be a bit more accurate, it all depends on what set up is which alternator and pulley set up, but the rev counter is adjustable at the dash end

AS
As Aidan said AHF is a diesel 5.43 box so they must have changed crown and pinions to 4.86 maybe drive it and go through each gear and record the same revs and speed in different gears so you can plot some kind of curve to see what's going on and then extrapolate from there.If its a budget TDI box we know that it is running more or less stock gearing
IF the Final drive is a 4.86 we know that syncro gears are R&G = 6,03 1st =3,78 2nd = 2,06 3rd =1,23 (can also range in ratio from 1.09-1.50 in custom sies) 4th = ? available in the following sizes
0.85 stock 4th petrol
0.82 3.5% RPM reduction* (5 speed petrol )
0.78 Stock diesel
0.77 9.4% RPM reduction* (custom)
0.75 11.8% RPM reduction* (custom )
0.73 14.1% RPM reduction* (custom)
0.70 17.6% RPM reduction* (custom)
however, if we assume its a cheap tdi we can eliminate all but 0.85, 0.82 and 0.78
here is a gearing calculator if that helps http://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php hope this helps Paul
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Re: Why no bids ?

Postby Aidan » 03 Aug 2019, 10:01

Dobble wrote:The engine is an AHU with a mechanical pump. I'm thinking that the pulley on the alternator may be the wrong size which would explain why the revs seem high, the alternator looks fairly new too.

We're thinking about taking it for a run this weekend and stopping somewhere over night, Aidan I don't suppose your around at all this weekend to cast you eye over it briefly?


I am about for the rest of the weekend, was out first thing this morning
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Re: Why no bids ?

Postby clift_d » 03 Aug 2019, 10:13

davidoft1 wrote:My Westy California 1600TD IS 100kmph around 4000rpm, 120kmph at around 4500rpm, that’s where it likes to be


jebiga41 wrote:definately your tacho is wrong or its a 16 rinning 6.17s check your revs in 3rd gear at 80 km/h :wink:


Fixed that for you.
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