Brakes question

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Brakes question

Postby silverbullet » 02 Mar 2019, 16:29

Brain fade question:
Are (late) front brake caliper assemblies the same for both 2wd and 14" syncro?
In other words, are caliper and carrier (ATE or Girling) dimensionally the same, discs are same diameter and offset is also equivalent etc
I think that they are, but never actually checked!
I'm trying to work out if my Oettinger front brakes will fit/clear inside a 15" wheel but I only have a late 2wd upright and a turned down disc to mock it all up.
The wheel clears the caliper but I'm not sure if I have the bolt spacers in the correct place...ImageImageImage

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Re: Brakes question

Postby clift_d » 02 Mar 2019, 18:16

My understanding is that they are the same - as far as I know the front brakes from our 2WD Westy were re-used when it was converted to a 14" Syncro.
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Re: Brakes question

Postby silverbullet » 02 Mar 2019, 18:40

Thanks, that concurs with what others have said. So I can safely regard the 2wd and syncro upright/hubs as conforming to the same basic dimensions and offsets.

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Re: Brakes question

Postby silverbullet » 02 Mar 2019, 20:50

I think that I need a reference dimension.
Anyone doing a front brake service or upright rebuild?
Could someone please measure: from the disc mounting face of the hub, back to the brake pad/caliper carrier mounting face on the upright.
The thickness of the disc centre would also be useful.
To the nearest mm will be fine ;)
Thanks.

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Re: Brakes question

Postby jebiga41 » 03 Mar 2019, 07:17

got a pair of uprights stripped and new bearings pressed in so will measure all that up for you Ian also picking up some 2wd uprights during the week so will compare
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Re: Brakes question

Postby Aidan » 03 Mar 2019, 08:47

85mm outer face of hub to outer face of carrier bolt holes on upright, hub 12.5mm thick
brake disc is 51mm from inside hub face to inner face of braking surface, disc is 16mm thick braking surface 7mm thick mounting surface

brakes are same 2wd or Syncro, callipers (with carriers) are interchangeable, Syncro takes standard 14Jx5.5 wheel so if the brakes clear on a 2wd they will clear on a Syncro, rim clearance to uprights may differ I don't have a 2wd upright to hand but it won't be much different if at all
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Re: Brakes question

Postby silverbullet » 03 Mar 2019, 09:43

Ta that gives me a benchmark. Always risky when comparing chalk and cheese!
I'll report back when I know a little more, I have been told that the early W124 E500 disc (300 x 28) is the one to use but it looks too short (46mm or something) but interestingly the Vito W639 is the same size but 58mm tall, which would set the caliper back nicely, if it doesn't foul the upright and the carrier...

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Re: Brakes question

Postby silverbullet » 03 Mar 2019, 10:00

On reflection, I think that I need to borrow an assembled 14" syncro upright from Kent

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Re: Brakes question

Postby silverbullet » 03 Mar 2019, 20:37

Did a bit more faffing about on the bench, assembling and swapping spacers around to get this 2wd to pretend to be a syncro upright with an invisible disc :-D

Based on Aidan's and my measurements, I can report that Simon B was correct about the disc required for a syncro. Well, why wouldn't he be?

If you can identify this ATE carrier (stamped CN) that works with what appears to be an ATE 56, 60(?)/22, BMW E28 caliper and pads, then you'll need 295 x 22 discs, 50mm tall. They are W124 300CE 24v and not E500 as I had been led to believe!

And it all fits inside a 7x15 ET21 period alloy wheel :-)ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

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Re: Brakes question

Postby silverbullet » 05 Mar 2019, 18:28

I decided to machine the face off this 2wd "disc"/hub to bring in the 85mm dimension as per syncro and the ~50mm overall height of the W124 disc looks spot on, allowing for about 6mm of disc centre thickness and measuring off the inner pad.
Discs now ordered from my friendly Yorkshire parts supplier, my local factors couldn't supply them commenting "oh its the 295mm one, they are a pain in the ar5e to get hold of..."ImageImage

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