Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

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Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby drumsofdoom » 15 Nov 2019, 18:02

Hi,

my brakes are the later Girling / 2 pin sliding type.

I purchased the Black Diamond pads and Discs from Brickwerks because I wanted the better performance and the better heat dissipation on the long descents, especially with a fully loaded van on holiday in a mountainous area. All was going well with the fitting until it came to sliding the calipers back on over the new pads. They are very very tight to go on over them, so much so that the disc is completely stuck on if I do manage to get the caliper on.

It's way beyond just driving it round the block to free them up, there's no way the wheel will turn like this. The piston is fully retracted, I'm sure of that. Took the cap off the brake fluid reservoir and pushed it back as far as it will go. I've filed away any corrosion build-up in the usual places on the caliper. The BD discs are not wider than my old ones, I measured both.

Simon and Michael at Brickwerks have both tried to help and they mentioned another customer had the same issue and sent back the pads. They fitted them to the Brickwerks van without issue, so no obvious solution there.

My van currently has my old pads re-fitted on the new discs because I ran out of time and had to drive back to where I live to go to work. I don't want to do any more miles on new discs/old pads. Shall I just file away 2mm of material off each new brake pad? Seems a bit of a shame as they're brand spankers and they cost me a fair bit. But I can't see any other way to get them to fit in there...

Anybody else had this problem? Anybody got any top tips?

Thanks in advance, have a good weekend
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby davidoft1 » 15 Nov 2019, 19:07

Have you tried using a clamp to push the caliper pistons back in ?
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby maxstu » 15 Nov 2019, 19:25

drumsofdoom wrote:Hi,

Shall I just file away 2mm of material off each new brake pad? Seems a bit of a shame as they're brand spankers and they cost me a fair bit. But I can't see any other way to get them to fit in there...

Anybody else had this problem? Anybody got any top tips?

Thanks in advance, have a good weekend


Four mm is a lot. As davidoft1 says...are you certain pistons are fully retracted? Use a correct size g clamp.
Lets cut to the chase, as you've forked for this quality kit, why not buy new calipers too? And fresh fluid. You can flog the old ones on here. :ok
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby 937carrera » 15 Nov 2019, 19:36

Measure the space for pads within the caliper and compare that to the pad+pad+caliper measurement

Should be easy to check that dimension with BW without having to ship pads.

Also check that the disc > caliper distance is equal front and rear of the disc

Caliper wind back tools are handy to have and not that expensive
Last edited by 937carrera on 15 Nov 2019, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby drumsofdoom » 15 Nov 2019, 19:38

maxstu wrote:
drumsofdoom wrote:Hi,

Shall I just file away 2mm of material off each new brake pad? Seems a bit of a shame as they're brand spankers and they cost me a fair bit. But I can't see any other way to get them to fit in there...

Anybody else had this problem? Anybody got any top tips?

Thanks in advance, have a good weekend


Four mm is a lot. As davidoft1 says...are you certain pistons are fully retracted? Use a correct size g clamp.
Lets cut to the chase, as you've forked for this quality kit, why not buy new calipers too? And fresh fluid. You can flog the old ones on here. :ok


Hi, thanks for your reply, i pushed the piston back with a big pair of grips and a piece of wood to avoid damage. I guess I could try a G clamp but the piston was back all the way to the body of the caliper, I don't think it would go any further. But I'll give it a go.

Yeah I guess if all else fails I'll get some new calipers, they aren't crazy expensive I suppose. Thanks again
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby drumsofdoom » 15 Nov 2019, 19:44

937carrera wrote:Measure the space for pads within the caliper and compare that to the pad+pad+caliper measurement

Should be easy to check that dimension with BW without having to ship pads.

Also check that the disc > caliper distance is equal front and rear of the disc

Caliper wind back tools are handy to have and not that expensive


I just had a quick look, you can get a wind back tool for a tenner or so. I'll order one and have a go with that. I don't think the piston will go back any more than it was but I'll give it a try and see.

I'll also check the pad+disc+pad measurement and check it against the internal space of the caliper measurement.

Thanks for your reply
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby 937carrera » 15 Nov 2019, 19:50

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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby drumsofdoom » 15 Nov 2019, 19:55

937carrera wrote:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-NEW-BRAKE-CALIPER-PISTON-REWIND-WIND-BACK-TOOL-KIT-22-34-PIECES-SET/391301943457?

I bought a kit like this - does pretty much any car, £13.75 delivered



Bargain. Nice one, I'm going to order one :ok
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby maxstu » 19 Nov 2019, 22:37

Any joy?
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby kevtherev » 23 Nov 2019, 05:09

Can we assume you cleared the calipers piston pots of debris during this task?
30 years is a long time for rust to collect in the pot and prevent the piston fully retracting even under clamp pressure
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby Auto » 24 Nov 2019, 15:42

I had the exact same problem with my black diamond pads and discs and with new callipers have you contacted brickworks about the problem?
I ended up sending them back and getting a thinner set of pads from black diamond, brickworks were very good about it
Good luck
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby Aidan » 24 Nov 2019, 17:29

FYI genuine VW supplied brake pads 251 698 151 F (Energit583FF) for late front brakes are 19mm thick including the backing plate which is 5.6mm, so just over 13mm friction material
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby keynsham1 » 28 Nov 2019, 13:36

I put EBC Greenstuff pads in my van. I had to file the end tags so they would fit in the calipers, and sand down the friction surfaces by around 1mm per pad to get them to fit. Basically they just do not fit as supplied. You would think they may have tested them? I suppose I should have messaged them so they knew about it.?? I like the Greenstuff pads but they never fit. I thing the layer of green paint is so thick generally that it causes the problem, although the ones for my van were just the wrong size!
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby drumsofdoom » 02 Feb 2020, 21:29

just a quick follow up to this, sorry for the lateness but only just got around to it.

The Black Diamond pads fitted fine in the end. I bought a caliper retracting tool and also spent a bit more time filing away the rust and brake dust build-up in there, and the pads sat in there ok.

In case you're interested, I really recommend them. I did some new brake fluid and also some new braided hose and the brakes feel great, maybe not factory fresh but pretty close. The BD pads and discs (after wearing in for maybe 30 or 40 miles) seem to slow the van much more effectively while gently pressing, like if you're cruising about on a winding road, or in city traffic. The real test will be the long descents on holiday in the mountains, really hoping the heat dissipation will be much better with the drilled discs.

So far so good.

Next on the list: find an EJ25 engine. Move to Wales. Buy a house with a garage instead of doing repairs on the roadside in noisy south London :(
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Re: Black Diamond Pads and Discs - fitting problems

Postby 937carrera » 02 Feb 2020, 23:22

:ok

Thanks for posting back with the resolution, it's always appreciated and helpful for others.

I'm glad the caliper wind back tool did the job. I was asked to help out with rear brakes on a Saab 900 a couple of weeks ago - replacement discs and pads. Similar issues, it was only when the caliper was cleaned up and the piston pushed fully back that the new pads could be fitted.

There are places other than Wales where a garage can be afforded :wink:
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