New starter still giving problems

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New starter still giving problems

Postby burnzdog » 05 Aug 2018, 07:36

Hi all,

I recently had a new engine put in, starter motor struggled after change but had symptoms before. Had a new starter put in and failed almost immediately. When I say failed I had to hit solenoid with a hammer whilst turning key to get it going. It was a cheap one from eurocarparts so I just put it down to bad luck. So, I then purchased a Hella from JK which looked like it was much better in its build quality. Anyway a few trips later it still playing up, and it always seems to be when it's hot. The van starts fine when cold but soon as I stop and try and start it is either completely dead, or a it makes a very tired noise and then starts. As it's brand new I don't know where to look or what could be problem?
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby 300CE » 05 Aug 2018, 13:27

Have you changed the oilite bush?
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby sarahandthebear » 05 Aug 2018, 13:46

Hey guys anything bought from jk is usually bad quality that's just from our experience anyway your best bet is to get it from brickwerks they use the best quality parts which may be more expensive but at least they work.
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby captain Byrne » 05 Aug 2018, 14:02

sarahandthebear wrote:Hey guys anything bought from jk is usually bad quality that's just from our experience anyway your best bet is to get it from brickwerks they use the best quality parts which may be more expensive but at least they work.

Agree with above. Spent today fitting a re-con Bosch starter from BW with the oilite bush. Works like a dream!
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby cubus » 05 Aug 2018, 14:33

sarahandthebear wrote:Hey guys anything bought from jk is usually bad quality that's just from our experience anyway your best bet is to get it from brickwerks they use the best quality parts which may be more expensive but at least they work.


Not totally fair. JK saved my vacation this year. We had a failing alternator this summer cruising along your South Coast. Being near Brighton the alternator gave up. Felt like a jet engine in the back, that howling alternator which in the end failed to charge. A trip to JK (combined with a visit to Oxford) brought me a new alternator for my CU engine. At home I will rebuild my Bosch alternator and keep it as a spare.
We had some splendid weeks and great weather in the UK! :ok

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Last edited by cubus on 05 Aug 2018, 21:42, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby RogerT » 05 Aug 2018, 16:15

Make sure the trigger wire to the solenoid is in good condition, typically corroded for many many inches back from the solenoid. Keep cutting back until you have fresh bright wire, not the black stuff.

I replaced mine all the way to the front of the van...
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby adie89 » 05 Aug 2018, 22:59

Upgrade your main battery to starter cable. Pretty sure it’s been done in the wiki by covkid. As the engine gets hot it’s harder to compress the fuel air mix so the starters struggle. Plus heat soak in wires and other close by items increases resistance, again making the starter imperceptibly slower and more difficult to start. Add in the enormous length of the weedy 35mm cable and voltage drop is a massive issue, throw in an old cable and its much more of a problem.
You can test the theory by using a jump lead from your battery to the main terminal on the starter and then start with the key. effectively your increasing the the amount of cable and therefore electricity to the starter, it’s a free test, while your there scotch Brite off all your terminals and reassemble. A little corrosion goes a long way for resistance.
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby Chunksta » 13 Aug 2018, 08:18

1.It’s especially important to change the ollyte bush into the gearbox bellhousing as it completes the electrical circuit properly.
It’s also important to check the earths trap between chassis and gearbox is intact and each connection clean as well.

2.I relocated my battery to into the left hand battery box in engine bay, and rewired between battery/electrics box/starter and alternator.

The first solution is the most important aspect, replacing the brush is very easy, and really does make that much difference.
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby 937carrera » 13 Aug 2018, 08:29

Chunksta wrote:1.It’s especially important to change the ollyte bush into the gearbox bellhousing as it completes the electrical circuit properly.


Not sure that I would go along with the oilite bush being part of the electrical circuit, it does provide a bearing function for the shaft though.
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby chriscburgess » 13 Aug 2018, 14:16

RogerT wrote:Make sure the trigger wire to the solenoid is in good condition, typically corroded for many many inches back from the solenoid. Keep cutting back until you have fresh bright wire, not the black stuff.

I replaced mine all the way to the front of the van...
Where does it connect at the front please? Also what spec wire should it be?

I have similar problems but only when engine is hot when there is not even a click from the starter. Let it cool down for an hour and it will start perfectly.
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby chriscburgess » 13 Aug 2018, 15:51

is it possible to get a ready made lead for the cable from battery to starter? if not what spec lead would i need?

Thanks
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby Mr Bean » 21 Aug 2018, 09:56

937carrera wrote:
Chunksta wrote:1.It’s especially important to change the ollyte bush into the gearbox bellhousing as it completes the electrical circuit properly.


Not sure that I would go along with the oilite bush being part of the electrical circuit, it does provide a bearing function for the shaft though.


Yes I totally agree with 937carrera.
In fact I would further suggest that the high currents required by the starter circuit could cause damage if passing through any other route than the engine block earth lead. The very small contact area presented by the balls in a ball bearing for instance could melt/weld if subjected to typical starting current. Fortunately there are usually many other lower resistance paths such as mating castings etc. which may just reduce performance rather than damage.
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby 937carrera » 21 Aug 2018, 10:01

1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby burnzdog » 23 Aug 2018, 11:40

Chucked and earth strap onto the starter and has made a significant difference. The voltage drops a little on turn but still within range. Even when hot it now will turn over, so Earth has made a difference.
Thanks for you help.

Chunksta wrote:1.It’s especially important to change the ollyte bush into the gearbox bellhousing as it completes the electrical circuit properly.
It’s also important to check the earths trap between chassis and gearbox is intact and each connection clean as well.

2.I relocated my battery to into the left hand battery box in engine bay, and rewired between battery/electrics box/starter and alternator.

The first solution is the most important aspect, replacing the brush is very easy, and really does make that much difference.
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Re: New starter still giving problems

Postby adie89 » 23 Aug 2018, 17:57

chriscburgess wrote:is it possible to get a ready made lead for the cable from battery to starter? if not what spec lead would i need?

Thanks


I went the whole hog and got a 75mm cable, I bought the hydraulic crimping tool on fleabay for about 25-30 quid. It made a massive difference, no voltage drop at all on charge and starts beautifully. It’s not cheap cable, I also got the fuel and oil proof twin sheath stuff because it’s mostly outside and underneath the bus. Think I paid about 40-50 quid
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