PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

for questions and answers about alternative power transplants on the T25, GTi, Porsche,Subaru etc, this is the place. You must register to post but anyone can read.

Moderators: User administrators, Moderators

PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby silverbullet » 03 May 2015, 14:18

Following on from my Oettinger 2500E aquisition/rebuild and subsequent spinoffs, Pete has asked me if I would build him a similar "big banger" for his syncro keeper.

The basic spec will be as follows:
98mm Omega Pistons & Westwood cylinder barrels (UK made)
9.7:1 static compression ratio.
82mm DPR full counterweight crankshaft (USA)
Phase 1 hydraulic camshaft with 18/58/58/18 timing, 9.2mm inlet & 8.5 exhaust valve lift.
Vanistan camshaft vernier.
26mm oil pump.
Selected pair of VW heads with subtle valve mods and a little detail porting.
Fan assisted oil cooler and possibly remote filter & thermostat.
A smattering of nice MRB stainless steel pipes etc.
DJ injection system. This may well evolve into full engine management later on, the Digi system should have enough tolerance/compensation in the fuelling to accomodate the mild cam and bigger capacity but time will tell. An adjustable or rising rate fuel regulator maybe all that is required, but an AFR gauge will definitely be fitted from day one!

Because this is build #1 there will be a degree of evolution to get the fuelling and ignition spot on and the engine performing to peak efficiency, Pete appreciates this and he isn't in it for the short term, it is a keeper and will be well used.

The old Oettinger 2500E engines were rated at 140bhp and 200Nm, so this is our benchmark target.
Hopefully we will be able to get this one on some 4wd rollers once run in and see what its really making, rather than just "imaginary" torque/hp.

We have had a bit of a false start thanks to an unexpectedly butchered DJ crankcase, but now we have a good MV in hand it will be bored to suit the new liners that have just been finished (pistons too!)

Pics soon.
'85 syncro Caravelle twin slider, '90 SA Microbus project

http://www.025motorsport.com
User avatar
silverbullet
Trader
 
Posts: 12775
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 09:51
Location: Surrey Syncronaut #156
80-90 Mem No: 6908

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby PetenAli » 04 May 2015, 06:29

For anyone who is interested, we've had the Syncro for nearly five years now. The current 2.1 DJ has served us well but we know nothing of its history. Nonetheless its taken us to Snowdonia, Northumberland, the Lakes (twice) as well as the Picos trip in 2011 and three long hauls to the S of France including crossing the Cevennes mountains six times in total (albeit slowly!). In addition there have lots of short haul trips around the SW peninsula and Syncronauts meets as well. I've kept it well serviced in that time but its now starting to use a bit more oil and the CRs are at the lower end of the range.

The whole time that we've had the Syncro we've been toying with various ideas on the engine front, mostly inspired by threads on here, including EJ25 and even, early on, going oil burner. I've kept coming back to the notion that we own this bus because I've always had VWs since I was a teenager and I have a moderate understanding of how boxer engines work although this is the first WBX that I've had. In the end sticking with things the way VW intended seemed the only way to go.

Consequently I've been looking for about a year to find someone who could build us something that at least matched, or preferably bettered, VW's original spec. Its been surprisingly difficult to achieve this but I'm confident that finally we have and when Ian started to talk about his one off cranks, pistons / liners and cams that seemed the way to go - certainly if our business is going to remain in the UK.

A couple of weeks ago I did a non-stop marathon journey to Walton on the Naze to pick up some panels for another part of our project and then down to Holman Engineering in Surrey to drop off some of the bits that I've been collecting over the years towards this ultimate aim. I even took two crankcases and left the one that passed the silverbullet test for a smooth waterpump mounting face so was horrified when Ian sent me the pics showing how the guide studs had been butchered in the past. Still we are over that hurdle now although no doubt there will be more...

As Ian says, this Syncro is a keeper for us and we want an engine that will have increased tractability but also reliability when kept properly serviced. This is not going to be a short term freshen up job and consequently we've been saving hard against the time when we find someone who is like minded and can build us something that will now hopefully outlast us.
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 DJ (Courtesy of 025MOTORSPORT)

Syncronaut #171
PetenAli
 
Posts: 603
Joined: 24 Jul 2010, 13:06
Location: West Cornwall
80-90 Mem No: 8569

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby silverbullet » 04 May 2015, 07:35

Thanks Pete, it was a bit of a shock finding that... we are on right path now.

I would just say for readers that the build spec is rock-solid: either a direct copy of the Oettinger/Kolbenschmidt original parts or in the case if the crankshaft, a well-proven design by DPR.

My 2500E was bought blind from a Carat auto with 200,000 km on the clock and the only wear inside is of course the cam and possibly the big ends (no external oil cooler!)

The cam is a sensible "first step" profile by Newman Cams meant for good low-down torque and mid-range punch, not some mad semi-race profile from a type 1 engine.
It is also a true hydraulic grind designed to work with the smaller wbx diameter followers as opposed to Aircooled mushroom head followers.

Right, must get to work now!
'85 syncro Caravelle twin slider, '90 SA Microbus project

http://www.025motorsport.com
User avatar
silverbullet
Trader
 
Posts: 12775
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 09:51
Location: Surrey Syncronaut #156
80-90 Mem No: 6908

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby MGP » 04 May 2015, 08:01

When your looking at fuel pressure regulators steer well clear of the FSE offerings from experience they will fluctuate fuel pressure with engine bay temperature, the only one i would recommend using is the turbosmart.
'89 1.9td AAZ engine
http://www.dubsonthefritz.co.uk
MGP
 
Posts: 381
Joined: 11 Sep 2014, 21:50
Location: Dunmow
80-90 Mem No: 13910

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby silverbullet » 04 May 2015, 14:31

Thanks for the tip!
'85 syncro Caravelle twin slider, '90 SA Microbus project

http://www.025motorsport.com
User avatar
silverbullet
Trader
 
Posts: 12775
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 09:51
Location: Surrey Syncronaut #156
80-90 Mem No: 6908

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby silverbullet » 21 May 2015, 22:33

Two heavy boxes from Westwood arrived today. Nice one Scotty!
Image
'85 syncro Caravelle twin slider, '90 SA Microbus project

http://www.025motorsport.com
User avatar
silverbullet
Trader
 
Posts: 12775
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 09:51
Location: Surrey Syncronaut #156
80-90 Mem No: 6908

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby bikermike87 » 23 May 2015, 07:14

This is really exciting, good on you both for taking the time, effort and enthusiasm to take it on.

I'm in a similar position to yourself Pete. A keeper syncro that just needs a little bit more power, whilst keeping it close to how VW intended. I shall be following. I know nothing about engine rebuilds, but wanting to learn and it's great that this is so relevant.

Thanks for sharing.
https://www.facebook.com/ChefCampers/
1991 Syncro Westfalia Atlantic 2.1MV
User avatar
bikermike87
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 24 Oct 2009, 21:16
Location: New Brighton, Wirral
80-90 Mem No: 7559

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby PetenAli » 23 May 2015, 17:20

Great to see the bits starting to arrive.

Thanks for the comments Mike. We'll keep you posted on progress. It's certainly looking like it will be pretty unique - at least to start with!
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 DJ (Courtesy of 025MOTORSPORT)

Syncronaut #171
PetenAli
 
Posts: 603
Joined: 24 Jul 2010, 13:06
Location: West Cornwall
80-90 Mem No: 8569

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby tforturton » 23 May 2015, 18:47

I think everyone with a 2.1 is going to be watching this thread. Sooner or later, we'll all be in this position....
1990 2.1 DJ Syncro Caravelle/Westfalia conversion RHD
tforturton
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 23:06
Location: Cardiff
80-90 Mem No: 11177

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby silverbullet » 24 May 2015, 19:09

I can say with some certainty that it will be the first one getting my wbx sump baffle/windage tray ;)
'85 syncro Caravelle twin slider, '90 SA Microbus project

http://www.025motorsport.com
User avatar
silverbullet
Trader
 
Posts: 12775
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 09:51
Location: Surrey Syncronaut #156
80-90 Mem No: 6908

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby silverbullet » 25 May 2015, 14:29

'85 syncro Caravelle twin slider, '90 SA Microbus project

http://www.025motorsport.com
User avatar
silverbullet
Trader
 
Posts: 12775
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 09:51
Location: Surrey Syncronaut #156
80-90 Mem No: 6908

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby toomanytoys » 26 May 2015, 07:08

Well. Its nice to see a project I tried to get going 7 years ago has found some support.. there was zero interest back then.. and j just couldnt afford to commit to something that there was no market for..
I wish the project all the success..
Both Ian and I came to the conclusion thst nobody will pay the real price for a std wbx and to biuld something better is more efficient in a lot of ways..
User avatar
toomanytoys
Trader
 
Posts: 2802
Joined: 11 Oct 2005, 18:37
Location: Boston area, South Lincolnshire
80-90 Mem No: 41

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby PetenAli » 26 May 2015, 08:59

Thanks Simon. I hope its successful as well :lol: :lol: .

Seriously though, its good to see the interest this is starting to generate. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to fundamentally stick to things the way VW intended. As you and I discussed previously - engines like this wont come cheap but compared to the alternatives (like EJ25) there probably wont be too much difference in the end and if the Syncro is a keeper then over the years it softens the blow anyway.
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 DJ (Courtesy of 025MOTORSPORT)

Syncronaut #171
PetenAli
 
Posts: 603
Joined: 24 Jul 2010, 13:06
Location: West Cornwall
80-90 Mem No: 8569

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby toomanytoys » 26 May 2015, 09:07

Yes.. perfect attitude to it.. :ok

Wish I could have done more years ago.. Time wasn't right... Things are changing...
User avatar
toomanytoys
Trader
 
Posts: 2802
Joined: 11 Oct 2005, 18:37
Location: Boston area, South Lincolnshire
80-90 Mem No: 41

Re: PetenAli's WBX 2500 engine build

Postby silverbullet » 26 May 2015, 21:57

Sometimes its good to keep a few bits of junk for doing a mock-up. This is my way of working out where to mount the oil cooler (with fan) filter head and thermostat, along with the hose runs. Inside my workshop and without being bent over the back of a van!
Image
'85 syncro Caravelle twin slider, '90 SA Microbus project

http://www.025motorsport.com
User avatar
silverbullet
Trader
 
Posts: 12775
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 09:51
Location: Surrey Syncronaut #156
80-90 Mem No: 6908

Next

Return to T25 Alternative Engine Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests