2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

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DJBuddy
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2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by DJBuddy »

Hello, really hope someone can offer some guidance here.

1992 2.1 DJ automatic

*Full history here in case anything is relevant*

Buddy has been a really good runner for us since we bought around 5 years ago. I maintain it myself. Regular oil changes and anything else that's needed. Fuel injectors were professionally refurbished 2 years ago. If left for a while there would be some tapping on cold start but this always cleared once oil got hot.
Everything was fine when parked up last September, except I noticed coolant dripping from RH cylinder head seal. Decided to wait until weather improved before tackling this.
Started work back in April. The battery was flat so I couldn't start it before doing the work but I assumed it would be ok. Took photos of the HT lead order and injector wiring. Ended up taking off both cylinder heads as the LH one showed evidence of a leak as well.

The heads looked really good. Typical crack between the valve seats. As a precaution I sent them to my engineer and he cleaned them, stripped, refaced the valves and checked the guide wear. All checked out good. I noticed that two of the valve adjusting screws had worn tips so I replaced those. The tappets were left in the block but were solid when I poked them with a pushrod. I also checked each pushrod for flatness by rolling on a granite worktop.

Put it all back together again using original VW tech manual. All new gaskets. Jacket seals coated with Dirko grey paste. Head nuts coated with Hylomar blue. I was very careful to ensure each pushrod was correctly seated. I loosened off each valve adjuster. In the process of turning the engine by hand to check each adjuster the tappets all went soft. So I adjusted them until each was just touching the valve then +1.5 turns.

Unfortunately I messed up and didn't torque the two centre nuts under the rocker shaft in RH head. When I filled up with coolant it was dribbling out of the sump drain. (Coolant was getting into the rocker area and dribbling down the pushrod tubes) Luckily I noticed this, cleaned up the nuts and sealed then tightened them. No coolant leak now and did a pressure test too. I'll run the engine until hot then change the oil for clean stuff.

Now, trying to fire it up and I'm not having any luck. First it was not cranking at all. The starter solenoid wasn't clicking so I removed it, put a tiny bit of grease on the brass sleeve inside and refitted. I also cut off the old 6mm crimp from the wire and fitted a new one. Starter was now turning but very slowly.

Fitted new battery, 70Ah 640CCA . I also removed the grounding strap by the gearbox mount and cleaned everything. I moved the connection on the negative lead from the battery to a stud under the seat as the old screw and captive nut in the wheel arch was very rusty. Engine now turns over much better, probably as good as you can get for one of these.

So what happens now is that it just cranks but won't fire up. Everything is as it was before, comparing the photos I took before disassembly. If I play arrive with the injector or HT lead order then I can sometimes get one cylinder to fire once but that's it, will just keep cranking.

I've checked the following:
Compression - 210psi cyl 1, 215psi cyl 2, 190psi cyl 3, 190psi cyl 4. I forgot to open the throttle but the values are nice and high. I've read that around 190psi should be expected.
Injectors - removed and held them over a plastic pot. All are pulsing with conical jets during cranking.
Spark - removed all plugs (looked ok but smelt of fuel). Fitted HT leads and lay the ends on the block. When cranking I can see sparks on all of them. So hopefully that rules out the hall sender, TCI module, coil, leads and plugs?
Order - Set cyl 1 to TDC with the rotor arm pointing at the corresponding HT lead. If I turn the engine by hand I can see the exhaust valve starts compressing so I know that cyl 1 was on the firing stroke. So hopefully that proves the dizzy is not 180 out of phase. HT leads are set the the correct firing order 1-4-3-2 going clockwise.

So I think I have ruled out the obvious things that could stop an engine from firing. It feels like something is out of phase but I believe it's all as per the book. I'm cranking until the battery gets low, then recharge. I can't bump start because it's an auto. This was a running engine before I started work so it's something I've done since the rebuild. Some other things I'm thinking:

I didn't start the engine before commencing the work, so I can't guarantee the fault occurred in the time it was laid up since last year, before I started the rebuild.
Could the plugs be fouled? They spark when removed and tested but could the fuel be wetting them? I haven't tried new plugs.
I wondered if the valve adjustment was wrong. I've now wound the adjuster screws back 1.5 turns to remove all preload, still doesn't start.
Have I bent a pushrod from not seating it correctly?
Has the fuel gone bad?
Has the ignition advance suddenly gone bad? I hadn't touched the dizzy. All vacuum lines are connected.

I'm going mad here and will probably miss camping this year. So any guidance or advise is appreciated! 😊

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maxstu
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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by maxstu »

Are you 100 percent certain you have set the dissy with No1 cylinder on compression stroke?

As you own a compression tester, plug it in
and check No 1 cylinder is coming to compression using tester and compare against dissy rota position. It will show a slight reading on the compression tester dial.

Or simply move leads 180 degrees. 3 over to 2. I over to 4 and try cranking again.

Also, check earth wires on left cylinder block.
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DJBuddy
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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by DJBuddy »

Thanks for replying!
I'm 99% sure but will try swapping the HT leads.

I haven't adjusted the dizzy. Also the HT leads are as connected before (I took a photo) and match the correct order in the book.

The ground wires I'll recheck, it's a good point. I connected them slightly differently because I had the coolant pipes blasted and painted.

I'm also going to try some easy start, need to get some from Halfords.

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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by Aidan »

modern fuel goes off quickly, but one would still expect it to try and run, unless there's a lot of water and little fuel, water settles in bottom of tank
Have you tried disconencting and reconnecting the ECU to 'clean' the contacts
Is the air flow meter connected ? Easy to omit to plug that in :oops:

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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by ajsimmo »

Sounds like there must be a lot of fuel in/gone down the bores. This can result in a mixture so rich that it won't ignite, even after cleaning the plugs. If you've turned it over long enough to flatten the battery several times, you may well have excess fuel contaminating the oil (possibly mixing with the remainder of the coolant that got in there earlier - not sure how you miss torquing two nuts if following the correct sequence, but that's not the point of the post...).
I'd recommend disconnecting the injectors, then turning the engine over for a while with WOT to get rid of any excess fuel. Plugs out, dried and cleaned. If the oil smells petrolly, change it. Then put it back together and try it again (in short bursts).
If the dizzy wasn't disturbed, how could the timing be out?

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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by Mocki »

I was discussing the e10 petrol with a friend who delivers fuel from refineries and he was telling me that the water is more easily mixed with the fuel now with the higher ethanol content and is less likely to be visible separately. I only have his word, but seems it’s causing quite a few problems with their job and condensation …. Water traps are no longer as effective and with ethanol being hydrophilic and assisting water and petrol mixing together

So maybe not so easy to tell , and maybe the petrol isnt as flammable with age
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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by silverbullet »

Safety point: when cranking over with plugs out, always disconnect the coil supply (black double plug) as well as the fuel pump supply, because excess fuel wil spray out and the abundance of fresh air + a steay spark can cause an engine fire.

DJBuddy
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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by DJBuddy »

Aidan wrote: 09 Jul 2023, 18:57 modern fuel goes off quickly, but one would still expect it to try and run, unless there's a lot of water and little fuel, water settles in bottom of tank
Have you tried disconencting and reconnecting the ECU to 'clean' the contacts
Is the air flow meter connected ? Easy to omit to plug that in :oops:

Hi, yes completely agree. I would expect it to fire and possibly run rough. I do have a VR6 Corrado sat next to it with E10 fuel of an even older vintage that will fire up on the button and idle sweetly.

Tests were done with the flow meter disconnected, spark and fuel all checked out. So I would still expect it to fire up, but yes I do have it connected normally.
Last edited by DJBuddy on 10 Jul 2023, 08:25, edited 1 time in total.

DJBuddy
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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by DJBuddy »

ajsimmo wrote: 09 Jul 2023, 20:49 Sounds like there must be a lot of fuel in/gone down the bores. This can result in a mixture so rich that it won't ignite, even after cleaning the plugs. If you've turned it over long enough to flatten the battery several times, you may well have excess fuel contaminating the oil (possibly mixing with the remainder of the coolant that got in there earlier - not sure how you miss torquing two nuts if following the correct sequence, but that's not the point of the post...Image).
I'd recommend disconnecting the injectors, then turning the engine over for a while with WOT to get rid of any excess fuel. Plugs out, dried and cleaned. If the oil smells petrolly, change it. Then put it back together and try it again (in short bursts).
If the dizzy wasn't disturbed, how could the timing be out?

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I had the plugs out when doing the compression test, so the cylinders definitely didn't have fuel in them after that. Still no joy when I reconnected it all up. I am going to try new plugs though as I've had experience with plugs that look ok but will spark erratically at the first sign of fuel.

And I'm still struggling to come to terms with leaving two head nuts loose but thanks for bringing it up again 😭

I drained all the oil/coolant mix and put fresh in and I'll be changing this again once I've had it running for the first time.

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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by tobydog »

Mocki wrote: 09 Jul 2023, 21:35 I was discussing the e10 petrol with a friend who delivers fuel from refineries and he was telling me that the water is more easily mixed with the fuel now with the higher ethanol content and is less likely to be visible separately. I only have his word, but seems it’s causing quite a few problems with their job and condensation …. Water traps are no longer as effective and with ethanol being hydrophilic and assisting water and petrol mixing together

So maybe not so easy to tell , and maybe the petrol isnt as flammable with age

I use this in the van and the Moto Guzzi - Classic Etha-Guard Plus

https://www.classicoils.co.uk/additives

I'm not sure if it's effective, but for the cost of the amount I use it's worth a try.  The guzzi started straight away after about 8 months recently.

 
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maxstu
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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by maxstu »

ajsimmo wrote: 09 Jul 2023, 20:49

If the dizzy wasn't disturbed, how could the timing be out?

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Because of this bit written by OP. I


Order - Set cyl 1 to TDC with the rotor arm pointing at the corresponding HT lead. If I turn the engine by hand I can see the exhaust valve starts compressing so I know that cyl 1 was on the firing stroke. So hopefully that proves the dizzy is not 180 out of phase. HT leads are set the the correct firing order 1-4-3-2 going clockwise.Order - Set cyl 1 to TDC with the rotor arm pointing at the corresponding HT lead. If I turn the engine by hand I can see the exhaust valve starts compressing so I know that cyl 1 was on the firing stroke. So hopefully that proves the dizzy is not 180 out of phase. HT leads are set the the correct firing order 1-4-3-2 going clockwise.


I thought inlet valve and not exhaust valve would compress on this cycle?
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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by DJBuddy »

maxstu wrote: 10 Jul 2023, 13:31
ajsimmo wrote: 09 Jul 2023, 20:49

If the dizzy wasn't disturbed, how could the timing be out?

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Because of this bit written by OP. I


Order - Set cyl 1 to TDC with the rotor arm pointing at the corresponding HT lead. If I turn the engine by hand I can see the exhaust valve starts compressing so I know that cyl 1 was on the firing stroke. So hopefully that proves the dizzy is not 180 out of phase. HT leads are set the the correct firing order 1-4-3-2 going clockwise.Order - Set cyl 1 to TDC with the rotor arm pointing at the corresponding HT lead. If I turn the engine by hand I can see the exhaust valve starts compressing so I know that cyl 1 was on the firing stroke. So hopefully that proves the dizzy is not 180 out of phase. HT leads are set the the correct firing order 1-4-3-2 going clockwise.


I thought inlet valve and not exhaust valve would compress on this cycle?
If the rotor arm and HT lead were aligned at TDC then that would be a firing event, hopefully it's the exhaust valve that opens after this (around BDC)?

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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by ajsimmo »

Yes, correct. Exhaust valve opens next, around bdc.

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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by maxstu »

Oh dear! Im not learning much. :oops:
No wonder l set the dissy 180 out on my recent rebuild.

:ok
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Re: 2.1 DJ won't fire up after head rebuilds

Post by DJBuddy »

Starts if I disconnect the intake trunk and spray easy start past the throttle, but then cuts out (maybe because the MAF is bypassed?)

Something weird with the fuel...?

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