(Mis-diagnosed )Trigger wire replacement

[shrig1969]

It has been a little while since I last asked for help....
I recently broke down after a long drive, with the trigger wire spade connector being the likely culprit. Tried to start her up for the return journey and got nothing. (Battery was good  12.76 v) This happened a few years back but managed to clean up the connections and all was good.
On this occasion the weather was wet and miserable and I believe this caused the problem. I tried cutting the crimp off to find decent wiring but it looked pretty bad throughout. Tested the solenoid end with multimeter, with the ignition on, and got no voltage at all ? Should I be getting around 12v at this point?
Fortunately on a slight slope and bump started her to get her going. On arrival home turned the engine off and tried to re start and nothing.....
I intend to replace the 6mm cable from solenoid to ignition and wondered what potential issues I might come across, and would it be a direct run from a to b as shown below?



Thanks in advance
Gary

[Rosie n' Jim]

I assume you mean 0v when key turned to the start position? Mine used to do this when warm, but ok if left for an hour or two. I used a relay to reduce the load on the trigger wire. Kits are available from usual suppliers. It is a straight through run front ignition barrel to stater,  but runs over the fuel tank which makes it tricky to secure properly. Might be worth putting it in a sleeve to give extra protection.

[davidoft1]

More likely to be the ignition switch than the wire , you need to test all parts of the system before replacing things

[ZsZ]

IMO better to put on a starter relay. Much easier and cheaper than pulling in a new thick wire. It takes the load from the ignition switch too.

like this one. Or search for "vw hard start relay" lot of UK VW vendors have some sort of a relay kit



Your trigger wire or some of the connections might be corroded but still will be able to supply current to the relay

Although on our vans a waterproof relay is much better:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000138721612.html

[ZsZ]

BTW this is a good write about diagnosing starter problems:
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wired/wir ... _03_01.htm

[shrig1969]

Thank you for your replies.
Once again I have jumped in with both feet without being methodical, thinking that I know what the fault is.
I will try a few tests at the weekend and see if I can locate the problem.
How would I test the ignition switch?
Regarding the starter relay, I have no doubt it would work, but just seems it is covering up the underlying problem.
My initial assumption was that I should get 12v at the crimped wire that slides on the solenoid spade. Is this part correct?
When turning the key I can hear no click at the starter/solenoid.

Thanks
Gary

[Rosie n' Jim]

You should get 12v when, and only when the key is turned to the start position . The way you word it, you expect 12v at the wire with no mention of key position.

[ZsZ]

How would I test the ignition switch?

Make some jumper cables and a mini circuit with headlamp bulbs. That will put load on the elements.

My initial assumption was that I should get 12v at the crimped wire that slides on the solenoid spade. Is this part correct?

You should measure battery voltage between the spade of the trigger wire and ground when the key is turned to start position.
Again a test lamp is better as it makes a load so it "stress tests" the circuit.

I have electrolytically cleaned (vinegar+salt bath then baking soda+water bath) and soldered all the connectors on the trigger circuit. That helps with the aged wiring.

[shrig1969]

Quick update….
Managed to rule out a couple of things today.
Ignition switch tested and working fine. ( what does the grey wire do?)
I have continuity also from ignition to solenoid trigger wire. (Would still like to run new cable back to somewhere behind the dash but it is not as simple as first thought)
Also tested starter with no sign of life.
Removed and dismantled starter and found the internal solder from the cable that attaches to the solenoid had snapped.
Hopefully I can get someone at work to repair, if not then unfortunately it will be a new one.

Could anyone please advise on what brushes I require for the starter, should a refurb be taken on.
All I could read off the casing was…
Bosch
000 208 425/426
12v
vw 025 911 023

Tried a few searches but they all look the same

Gary

[Aidan]

brush set is 311 911 215 A

[mioba]

Just read the thread and first thought was starter pn first post.
i recall about 10 years ago i was seeing intermittent starting issues on my Daisy. It was getting worse. On the ferry Calais to Dover. Ready to disembark - no starting - but smoke coming out at back (on the ferry). Once drama subsided - pushed the car dpwn the ramps for a bump start - lucky i had enough fuel to get home. I just replaced the whole thing.

Make sure to disconnect battery before working down there and get some plus gas on the nuts daily before doing the work.

[Robsey]

Ignition switch tested and working fine. ( what does the grey wire do?)

The grey wire is for parking lights...
12 volts when key removed.

I use it for a dummy alarm warning led.

You may also have a grey-black wire, which is live (12 volts) when you put the key in.
Only used for seat-belt warning power feed, where fitted.

[shrig1969]

brush set is 311 911 215 A

The grey wire is for parking lights...
12 volts when key removed.

That explains why I was getting continuity with the key out of ignition

[shrig1969]

Thought I would update you all regarding my starter woes…..
Managed to find someone fairly local to try and re-condition my starter. Unfortunately the 30+ year old starter was beyond repair, so fitted a new one today.
Cleaned up all the connections first and she started up like new. that has resolved my issue.
Decided against renewing the ignition wire as stated as “ if it ain’t broke….” quote from previous problems posted on here.
Thank you to all who helped me methodically test things from ignition to starter.
I have renamed the original post for all those who, like me, to not take for granted what you think is the problem outright. It IS not always the culprit.

[shrig1969]

Thought I had renamed original post, but obviously not.
Is it possible to do?