1.6 TD JX - Foam in coolant

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StoneRoses
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1.6 TD JX - Foam in coolant

Post by StoneRoses »

Hi Folks
Need some guidance from you water-cooled experts. I’ve 20 years on Aircooled T1 and T2, but still pretty new to my 1990 T3.

1.6TD JX Karmann Gipsy, 2.6t unladen, she’s a big old unit.

Long story short, my coolant is foaming:


 Image

This is a small sample of the foam that escaped when I loosened the dalek cap slightly, it's not come from the sensor thread, which is coolant- tight. The foam bubbles look clean and soap-like, like a lather, as if washing-up liquid had been added to the coolant  :shock:


Background

Few months ago, as preventative maintenance, cooling system incl radiator,  was flushed with water.  Radiator tested with boiling water, no cold spots. Fresh 50/50 coolant mix added, system bled, ran fine through to end of summer. All good.

About month ago noticed coolant level was dropping slightly. No obvious leaks, so added K-Seal and topped up coolant. Not driven much since.

Driving home from work recently, weather freezing cold, cab heating all good.  After 30 mins hard drive, fortunately only ¼  mile from home, blower started belting out cold air, lost all heating, and coolant light came on.

Started diagnosis the following morning:
 
  • Overflow tank (that behind reg plate) has obviously vented as there was copper-coloured K-Seal residue on its exterior. Its coolant level had since fallen back to below the min level mark, but wasn't empty.
  • Header tank level down about ½ inch from top (I previously filled it to the brim under hard revs)
  • Started her up, idled & revved until temp gauge just started to pass the cool-engine zone. No issues.
  • Observed lot of activity in header tank, looked like a mini Niagra Falls in there.  Carefully loosened dalek cap and white foam started escaping. Gently removed cap and lot more foam was expelled, more revs = more foam. Like a bottle of Radox in a deep bath !
  • Kept replenishing header with 50/50 coolant until no more foaming.
  • Replaced dalek cap, weather too cold so came in.
Next Day:
  • Stone cold engine. Removed dalek cap, very light amount of foam atop of healthy-looking pink coolant:

Image
  • Bought up to temp, no warning light, revved and bled at the radiator for good measure. Went for hard 20 mile drive, incl. moderate hill, no issues at all, cab heating was brilliant. Gauge didn’t even reach centre-point, tho very cold weather.

  • On return, placed cardboard under front and back of van, didn’t capture any coolant leaks.
  • Slowly eased of the dalek cap, more foam and octopus hose very hard.
  • Turned engine off.  Lot of noise from the header tank, sounded kinda like a kettle gently boiling. Didn’t subside completely for a good ten mins. This could be normal, but I’ve just never noticed it before. Hopefully this vid emphasises such : [url]https://youtu.be/CNmNa1fOCgE[/url]


So….. is this likely a side-effect from adding K-Seal ? Googling suggests this is a possibility, albeit rare,  and that the foaming should subside overtime.

Or something more sinister…i.e., head gasket going/gone ? If so, I;ve got my tools at the ready..

Cheers,
Gareth.

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ZsZ
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Re: 1.6 TD JX - Foam in coolant

Post by ZsZ »

I never had foaming coolant like this, however the 4way "octopus" hose being hard can indicate ot is too much pressure in the system.

Your dalek cap can be bad, it worth checking how much pressure it holds - I had problems with new Blau caps holding too much pressure and pressure breaking hoses.

Or worst case scenario: bad head gasket, cracked head, etc. To rule out this you can check for bubbles going into the reservoir running the engine without the cap.
Zoltan
1986 Multivan ex-Caravelle. Van since 2006, running mTDi 1Z since 2008 with Fiat Croma 1.9 TDid pump 2008-2019, custom pump since 2019
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multisi
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Re: 1.6 TD JX - Foam in coolant

Post by multisi »

When the head gasket went on my JX diesel there was lots of foam overflowing with pressure.
1992 red lle 2.2 subaru 1990 rhd caravelle 2.2 subaru 1986 california import vanagon

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mioba
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Re: 1.6 TD JX - Foam in coolant

Post by mioba »

K Seal is the worst you can do, it lines everything and is a beach to clean out. Coolant systems are either water tight (what they are designed for) or not.

JX engines are common for developing cracks between the exhaust and inlet lifters in the head = exhaust gas going where it shouldn't and pressurising the system.

I had the same years ago. Took it to my T3 specialist (while i lived in Munich) and he knew the fault immediately and cause.

New AMC head and its been right as rain. Might be worth putting a JR head on as they have hydraulic lifters so no re shimming the lifters (tappets).

You will only see the fault when the engine is hot hot as thats when the crack expands!
Westfalia Hightop Top Joker 1.6TD - aka Daisy, my labour of love

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1.6 TD JX - Foam in coolant

Post by clift_d »

My understanding, from previous conversations with AW Engineering, is that hydraulic lifters are not really suitable for the diesel engine in a T25/T3 due to the angle that the engine sits at. If I recall correctly they expressed a concern that they would get flooded?
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StoneRoses
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Re: 1.6 TD JX - Foam in coolant

Post by StoneRoses »

mioba wrote: 13 Dec 2022, 13:34 K Seal is the worst you can do, it lines everything and is a beach to clean out. Coolant systems are either water tight (what they are designed for) or not.

JX engines are common for developing cracks between the exhaust and inlet lifters in the head = exhaust gas going where it shouldn't and pressurising the system.

I had the same years ago. Took it to my T3 specialist (while i lived in Munich) and he knew the fault immediately and cause.

New AMC head and its been right as rain. Might be worth putting a JR head on as they have hydraulic lifters so no re shimming the lifters (tappets).

You will only see the fault when the engine is hot hot as thats when the crack expands!
Guess I was a bit gung-ho with the K-Seal, it was sugggested to me, didn't do my research. Watercooled VW's are still dark arts to me, but I'm learning and, most importantly, enjoying it. 

Think I'll take the head off this weekend. Engine access in a Gipsy is only from the inside, so a little constrained relative to standard T3, but the big advantage is that I can turn her gas heater on, stereo up, and work in releative comfort in these subzero temps we're having at the mo.

Thanks for your input, much appreciated  :ok  
 

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mioba
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Re: 1.6 TD JX - Foam in coolant

Post by mioba »

How are you getting on with job.
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StoneRoses
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Re: 1.6 TD JX - Foam in coolant

Post by StoneRoses »

progressing slowly, though I'm taking the time to go through everything, as watercooled VW's, and diesels in general, are new to me.

It took a lot of time and swearing to get the Turbo off...one exhaust and one manifold stud sheared. The Turbo  itself (K14) seems good - spinning freely, no axial play, wastegate opening OK. Cleaned out oil feed & return lines, compressor > wastegate pipe, air intake hose, etc. All good and ready to go back on.

But I'm still waiting on cam lock and pin to arrive...not helped by postal strikes. Hence I've downed tools. Head gasket arrived (2-Notch, hoping this will be OK once i've measured piston protusion).  Gaskets for coolant flanges, rocker cover, new head bolts, etc. all here. So I'm good to go once I can lock the cam etc. Engine appears unmolested, e.g., still has its heat sheields around the manifold and plastic cover over the camshaft. 86k verified miles, so loads of life left (I hope!)

Image

As an aside, the turbo > manifold studs are different to those I've read about; specifcally they have a recessed torx T50 (iirc) heads rather than the12-point socket type. The two longer ones also have a tapered end to help location. The threads cleaned up ok with a die, so I plan to reuse them, as replacements are very expensive from Brickwerks et al. Will need to buy one to replace that which sheared.

Image

I'll let you know how I get on.

cheers

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Re: 1.6 TD JX - Foam in coolant

Post by multisi »

Was the gasket that was on the block a 2 notch ?
1992 red lle 2.2 subaru 1990 rhd caravelle 2.2 subaru 1986 california import vanagon

StoneRoses
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Re: 1.6 TD JX - Foam in coolant

Post by StoneRoses »

Finally got to take the head off today.

Image

Image
The oil you're see above was residue from the removal process, nothing concerning.

Gasket came away cleanly and didn't have any obvious signs of failure. Top:Image

Underside: Image

After cleaning, I couldn't see any unexpected issues with the head EXCEPT small crack next to #3 precombustion chamber :roll:

Image

I've posted a seperate thread for guidance on the crack.

Other than that issue, does anyone have any thoughts deduced from above pics as to wether the head gasket was the likely source of gasess in the coolant ? Learning loads from this, first-time I've got my hands dirty on a watercooled VW engine :D

thanks
Gareth

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