Headbolt leak. Beginning of the End?

[maxstu]

.... and when you do, given the confidence you have in Elite, you might want to think about doing the release, clean, retorque process on the right hand bank at the same time

Might be tempting fate though Often read this is a problem with 2.1 Elite rebuilds on left cylinder head. Yet not affecting 1.9. Cannot reason why though. Probably an urban myth. Or simply the few 2.1 owners it affected just happen to be more vocal.

[300CE]

Howdy Stu, sorry to hear about the bus mate but that sounds exactly like the symptoms I had on my DG (also an Elite rebuild).

Bus was overpressurising -loads of pressure releasing from header tank even if the van was left for a few days. Top up tank also would fill up. I found that 1 of the head nuts was also loose on the head which was retorqued and I even put some of that Steel Seal in which didn’t make any difference.

Unfortunately looks like a top end rebuild is the only option mate.

Here’s a link to my thread:

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=163364" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[maxstu]

Howdy Stu, sorry to hear about the bus mate but that sounds exactly like the symptoms I had on my DG (also an Elite rebuild).

Bus was overpressurising -loads of pressure releasing from header tank even if the van was left for a few days. Top up tank also would fill up. I found that 1 of the head nuts was also loose on the head which was retorqued and I even put some of that Steel Seal in which didn’t make any difference.

Unfortunately looks like a top end rebuild is the only option mate.

Here’s a link to my thread:

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=163364" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[maxstu]

Cant post my reply???

[maxstu]

Keep getting this...

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[maxstu]

Hello Justin,

Thanks for the link. Re-read again this morning plus other
links covering rebuilds. Reality is hitting home so I guess l have two options.

Option one.

Dismantle the removed original DG1.9 which suffered failure after carb melted and chucked some metal into engine. Heated sump and dropped oil yesterday. Nothing too critical came out. But more than just swarf. One piece about the 1/4 size of a grain rice is a bit alarming. And crank end play is horrendous. About 2mm in some places when revolving flywheel. Plus a horrible knocking noise when at TDC on number one. Could be interesting...plus gives me opportunity to use piston rings l bought from you....Least this allows me to gently drive camper about for now.

Secondly.

Rip out 2.1. New liner seals top and bottom. Compression rings and rubbers. While out oil seals both end and check/set end play. Check and replace clutch if necessary.

[ajsimmo]

Cant post my reply???

Who posted this then?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[ajsimmo]

With everything you list in option one, I'd go option two.

I once saw a DG (funnily enough, an Elite) that melted the carb. Lost all compression. Took the heads off and found molten metal droplets had stuck and solidified on the back of all four valves, thus holding the valves off the seats. I just replaced the heads with a couple of good used units and a spare manifold & Pierburg - ran like a dream again. BTW, whilst cleaning and checking bores and pistons I noted that the elite engine had a mix n match piston set. Different brands can be different sizes and weights. Just saying...

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[itchyfeet]

Reality is hitting home so I guess l have two options.

assuming you have the money..

I'd strip down and try and fix the 1.9 first, you can learn from it and assuming it goes well you put in in the van while you do the 2.1.

The 2.1 will be a better job because you have learnt from the 1.9 and you have much more time because you have an engine and the van works.

I still have a cobbled up 1.9 in my tin top and a 2.1 ready to go in for a year now but as the 1.9 works just fine I'm in no hurry. When I do fit the 2.1 I will know I have a working 1.9 spare as a spare.

Happy to help as much as I can.

[937carrera]

Well if you aren't confused enough here's a third option.

Do what you were originally going to do and go through a removal / retorque of the existing head nuts.

All the wise advice is saying it'll do no good, but what is it going to cost to try it. A couple of hours work and a tenner for materials. If it doesn't work, you'll know pretty much straight away, so little risk of damage through use. If you snap a stud while doing this, then better breaking it before you strip down rather than after you have rebuilt the thing.

As for option one or two, you have the different perspectives, you'll need to decide based on your level of confidence and how much time you have available / can have the van non moveable.

[itchyfeet]

Do you know anybody this worked for?

Well if you aren't confused enough here's a third option.

Do what you were originally going to do and go through a removal / retorque of the existing head nuts.

All the wise advice is saying it'll do no good, but what is it going to cost to try it. A couple of hours work and a tenner for materials. If it doesn't work, you'll know pretty much straight away, so little risk of damage through use. If you snap a stud while doing this, then better breaking it before you strip down rather than after you have rebuilt the thing.

As for option one or two, you have the different perspectives, you'll need to decide based on your level of confidence and how much time you have available / can have the van non moveable.

[937carrera]

Not on a WBX, but it is a pretty standard procedure on other engines, I have it done as a "maintenance" procedure on one of my other cars with a more highly stressed forced induction engine - the head can lift off the block under boost unless this is done.

I know you don't think it will work, maxstu can decide if he wants to invest the time or not

[ajsimmo]

I did it once on an Engine Shop bigbore. Had two in on the trot with the same symptoms, both caused by insufficient torquing of head nuts in the build. First one I removed the RHS head, replaced compression seals and refitted head, then torqued both heads to 50Nm, fixed. Second time I just redid each nut with new sealant, refitting back to 30Nm each time, then 40, then 50. It fixed it. But that was caused by relatively loose nuts, this problem may not be quite as simple, but I agree it's worth a try as you've nothing to lose (as long as you can manage without the van for a while if one should snap).

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[maxstu]

Great stuff guys. Many thanks.

Im going to rip down DG 1.9 first and check inside. Its not a happy sounding crank at present. Nasty clonk when at TDC on number one (and masses of play on end crank) coming from near distributor drive. So will whip shaft out and slowly rotate engine again.

Camper is only road legal vehicle at present. I reckon it will keep going for a few months yet. I do have a motorcycle. But likely selling it to pay for this adventure. No work and lack of funds at present. Go on, l can do that! Gissa job?

By the way can l mix a DF casing with cam & crank to DG conrods, pistons and cylinder heads? Or DF conrods and DG pistons and heads?

[itchyfeet]

there are early and late DG's and DF's, difference being case and main bearings
Never stripped a DF but I believe everything is same as DG except heads and cam.