Club 80-90 Forums

Another Elite rebuild leaking from cylinder head nut? A bit of a damning accusation perhaps? But l have dealt with these muppets in the past. And not one good thing to report back...in fact they p*ssed me around so much, the mighty Steve Shaw RIP drove to me in Kent, left me a car to use, and took my camper back to Ellsmere to do gas conversion. Then delivered camper back to me! What a guy, and a true gent!
Anyway camper is pressurising system and throwing water onto top up tank behind flap.
This is from number four pot, nearest water pump.
Should l try releasing, then reseal and retorque this nut? Should l do all eight nuts on this bank?
2.1 Carb LPG Early Cooling System

sorry to sound like the voice of doom, it would be worth doing a garage 'sniff test' before going any further to see if there are combustion gasses in the coolant, the last time I thought I just had a leak I chased from one leak to another for two weeks before coming to the conclusion that there should not be that much pressure in the system. On stripping the heads off there was a clear failure of the barrel to head seal. Also could be a crack in the cylinder head, they have been known to crack near that position, there was a thread on here re this a while ago.

if it were mine, i would be getting the engine up to temp, letting the pressure out of the system and then gently loosening that nut and drying it and resealing it in the hope it is just leaking because elite are muppets
best case, its going to cost you for a tube of sealant ( https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/oenumb ... 00002.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and a couple of hours by the time you have finished and bled it , worse case its cost you a tube of sealant and it didnt fix it

Cheers to both of you.
l have read several times to expect this from a Elite recon/rebuild. I bought engine last year from someone going alternative. And was informed it was an Elite engine, and served them well for five years.

Apparently it a case of insufficient torque when water jackets are replaced? Perhaps it shows how little faith Elite have in their own workmanship...best not tighten heads stud to correct spec in case it shears a dodgy or corroded bolt.

Steve, just the one nut or all eight on left bank? My concern is if all incorrectly tightened as present, correcting one will cause further leaks elsewhere on the same head?

Sniff test coming up

If you are going to do the job I suggest you do all 8....... but in the correct torque tightening sequence

I don't think there's a need to do a coolant sniff test yet. If the nuts are loose then compression gases are pressurising the coolant system, but the re-torqueing might eliminate the problem completely.

Fingers crossed

maxstu wrote: Anyway camper is pressurising system and throwing water onto top up tank behind flap.

compression seals have failed

maxstu wrote: Should l try releasing, then reseal and retorque this nut? Should l do all eight nuts on this bank?

No pointless because compression seals have failed they won't reseal by any amount of head nut torquing.

Heads off do it properly.

Thanks Carrera & Itchy.
No harm in trying tightening sequence first l guess. Ive read plenty on hear to feel confident about tackling this first.
If it fails then engine out and new compression rings, water jacket seals etc when weather gets a bit warmer.
Thanks to all. And any other suggestions please let me know.
Regards
Stuart

maxstu wrote:Thanks Carrera & Itchy.
No harm in trying tightening sequence first l guess.

There could be, by delaying the inevitable you are just causing more erosion to the head where the compression gasses are leaking past.

Every time it over heats you are also causing more warping of components such as heads.

Also if you just try tightening you may well snap studs because the nuts are now full of rusty crap.

You can only tighten a nut correctly if it's clean and dry and all 8 must be evenly torqued, if not you may snap studs when driving. Seen perfectly good studs snapped in use almost certainly because of uneven torques.

You could well be right itchyfeet, the question is has the compression seal been fatally compromised and similarly with the coolant seal.

If the coolant level is not dropping through entry into the combustion chamber then steam erosion is less likely, by the sounds of the description it's compression gases entering the coolant system, but we don't know how long this is going on for either.

To be clear, if the nut tightening route is being contemplated the process would be release one nut, clean the threads on stud & nut, then reassemble and torque to spec.

As a picture is worth a thousand words, I nicked the picture below from another thread at http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=8163742. It's one that itchyfeet did earlier

Thanks to both for sound advise.
Camper drives well and no excessive steam from exhaust. It clears very quickly even when very cold weather.
A bit of background for you.
Bought camper DG1900 LPG as non runner in Feb 2018.
Engine semi locked by ( l believe) explosion on pancake and melting internals of carb into engine. Not investigated further
Fitted spare 2.1 engine to camper in July last year.
Did a fair bit of mileage later half of 2018 without any problems apart from a very, and l mean very small leak from radiator. No topping up required. Even pulled a folding caravan in rediculously hot weather without issue.
End of 2018 leak got worse so replaced radiator. And this is where problem really exposed itself. Perhaps minor rad leak was acting as a relief valve?
From then on system pressurising and flowing into top up tank and not returning. Also when blue cap removed when cold its releasing pressure. And when running a normal temp and at idle l can see bubbles breaking to surface inside top up tank.
Thank you

maxstu wrote: Even pulled a folding cara van in rediculously hot weather without issue.

That may well have been the last straw.

937carrera wrote:You could well be right itchyfeet, the question is has the compression seal been fatally compromised

yes it's leaking, they are soft metal and designed to squish to the shape of the head and barrel, it's already squished once and now it's leaking so it's not going to reseal and even if it appears to next rediculously hot weather it will fail and let you down ust when you don't want it to.

Do it right, heads off.

Assuming you do it properly check oil pressure and compressions first. it tells you a lot and may well just persuade you you are making the right choice.

.... and when you do, given the confidence you have in Elite, you might want to think about doing the release, clean, retorque process on the right hand bank at the same time

937carrera wrote:.... and when you do, given the confidence you have in Elite, you might want to think about doing the release, clean, retorque process on the right hand bank at the same time

If you are doing head seals do both sides

LPG not adjusted right can run lean and over heat the engine.
What MPG do you get on LPG?

itchyfeet wrote:

937carrera wrote:....

LPG not adjusted right can run lean and over heat the engine.
What MPG do you get on LPG?

Never below 18 on LPG. My last camper, a 1.9DG LPG did about the same. Good strong engine too. Reconditioned at 140K. Still fine at 205K.