Club 80-90 Forums

Cheers,

I was slowly also coming to the conclusion that the 0.4mm was late case only

Hang on..... this engine came without a flywheel... you put on an Aircooled flywheel.. is that giving false readings of end-float?
Just my 2p.

bigbadbob76 wrote:Hang on..... this engine came without a flywheel... you put on an Aircooled flywheel.. is that giving false readings of end-float?
Just my 2p.

+1 good spot BBB

you can't fit a late bearing and as they had thicker 0.4 washer I'd say the late bearing dims are different to early so how does measuring a late bearing help?

Glad I made that tongue in cheek comment.

The CU flywheel is NLA so it is different in some way as the WBX is available, however circumstantial evidence suggests that the rear side must be the same, so maybe just the friction surface diameter

https://www.vwheritage.com/ac105795-lig ... d-vw-spare

Description:

Lightened (13-pound) forged flywheel for use with a 215mm clutch when fitting a Type4 or Waterboxer engine to Type1 gearbox or T2 gearbox up to '75 without any clearancing of the gearbox. Has 8mm clutch bolt holes (unlike the original 215mm flywheel which was 7mm). Can also be used on any standard Type4 or Waterboxer which requires a new flywheel as the original 228mm types are no longer available.

itchyfeet wrote:you can't fit a late bearing and as they had thicker 0.4 washer I'd say the late bearing dims are different to early so how does measuring a late bearing help?

The cranks are the same aren't they, so the total dimension of the assembly must be the same. At least that was my thought process as I have been unable to find the dimensions for a new one and thought I had better get in quick before BBB binned his.

the endfloat is from flywheel to thrust washer or early bearing
chage flywheel or early bearing or thrust washer and endfloat changes.

I was a bit confused with my 0.35mm endfloat too.
My thrust washers weren't worn, my bearing wouldn't wear on the ends as the thrust washers can't rotate.
I had 3 shims in there, 0.36, 0.30 and 0.30.
somehow.... fitting a new bearing and the new 0.4mm large diameter shim in place of the 0.36mm small diameter one has cured my endfloat.
Maybe I had the wrong width bearing in there... in that case, the one I measured for you would be wrong.

itchyfeet wrote:the endfloat is from flywheel to thrust washer or early bearing
chage flywheel or early bearing or thrust washer and endfloat changes.

Yep agreed, I'll see if the datapoints make any sense to give me the confidence all will be well when I reassemble......... of course BBB's experience indicates only an empirical solution will work

calculating from measuring shims is often wrong the shims wear and are not even thickness in my experience, you need to try a few combinations of shims I have a collection now but doing it by buying just the one shim often is wrong.

937carrera wrote:I have an early case

You have an early water pump on it too.
Mine doesn't have the hose spigot coming out of the top.

Well my AutoSleeper is 1990 so I would tend to assume that's a late everything. I suppose this means I'll have to start learning about the differences between early / late cooling systems too

Or maybe I'll just put the whole thing in a museum, anyone know the address

I'll PM you mine.

Well, this morning I have mainly been measuring:

Crank, as indicated earlier it is on good condition. I recalibrated / remeasured journal number 4 and at 39.98mm it is ever so slightly out of spec, but to be honest the difference of 0.004mm is probably well within measuring accuracy. Every other journal is still at "as new" spec so I'll need to think about why just this one journal appears worn.

Pictures next:

Measuring play at the conrod. I just managed to force a 0.4mm feeler gauge is, so this is well within the spec of 0.7mm



For reference, this is what that converts to at the small end - 1.08mm



Here's what the main bearings look like:

Number 1 looks in good condition, there's a couple of very minor scratches and some signs of crankcase shuffle / heat on the case side at the bottom of the case. Not too much to worry about

Number 3 shows some signs of uneven wear on the side of number 1 conrod and a small hotspot. This bearing is slightly oval, but the crank isn't, so that's fine

Number 4 looks very good, no signs of any damage or wear



This is number 3 conrod. Again signs of it running at an angle, perhaps being the first cylinder on the crank it is taking the brunt of excessive endplay. The wear also makes this slightly oval measuring 55.02-55.05mm. This measured 1.36mm of sideplay at the small end. The rest of the rods and bearings look excellent



Here's the overall view of the condition of the crankshaft. For those who have made the measurements or rebuilt a WBX / type 4 engine, how do these compare to other cranks you have seen as I am still trying to figure out why this engine had been stripped on ancillaries ?



Here's a link to a decent reference booklet from Glyco http://www.wilmink.nl/glyco/glyco_lager ... rmatie.pdf .02 to .08 is normal so I think that confirms the crank is good to go, perhaps after a little polishing.

I'm off to do some more measuring now

Next on the list of things to do was evaluating the endfloat, so I did a quick reassembly to re-measure the endfloat and it came in at 0.28mm with three shims fitted. That's too much.

As BBB had kindly measured his late case bearings I then compared his measurements against my own, working on the basis that as the crankshafts are the same part number, the key change to the case were limited to the cut outs for the separate thrust washers as part of the 3 piece thrust bearing for later cases and additional clearancing for the 2.1 engine.

His measured 24.806mm, lets call that 24.81mm because his mic is a much higher quality than mine.

My early case one piece thrust bearing measures 25.89mm, apparently 1.08mm wider, which you would think make a difference in endfloat of 0.54mm. That makes no sense to me, so time for additional contemplation.

We do at least have baseline measurements for both thrust bearing measurements now. Does anyone know what a new one piece thrust bearing measures.



I have rechecked the three shims, they have a combined thickness of 0.96mm, none of them is 0.4 today, indeed they are all 75mm diameter, so the 81mm diameter shim appears to be absent. (as it should be on an early case)

If I were to install 3 x 0.38mm shims that would total 1.14mm and give me back 0.18mm getting endfloat down to 0.10mm. That'll do.

I do understand that when it comes to reassembly a different combination of shims might actually yield the right result, and in fact unless I source a WBX flywheel I'm not going to be setting endfloat. Through this process I have now also realised that my spare CU flywheel may in fact be rocking horse poo. According to Brickwerks it's the same clutch as the late DG / early DJ at 228mm so there must be some other difference that makes the CU flywheel different and NLA

https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/t3-parts/d ... 228mm.html

updated - I keep wanting to use the late case 0.4mm shim

Oil pump next