Club 80-90 Forums

Hi everybody!

There has been a small amount of talk about insulation on another recent thread, and i have done a bit of a search on here too but i thought it might be an idea for everybody to chuck in their latest ideas / plans / and actual evidence of good and bad types of insulation.
Mods - delete if you think this is not syncro specific enough or the subject has been beaten to death elsewhere. I just wanted to see if the syncro folks have a favourite type, style bla bla bla. (as we all know syncro owners go places, sometimes colder, than other T3 owners dare to tread, ha ha...)

Some i have seen so far -

Aerogel
Armaflex
Silent Coat (more for sound deadening)
Pipe insulation
Fibreglass insulation (stuffed into plastic bags)
Rockwool (pretty much everybody hates it by the looks).

Anymore for anymore?

cheers people!

Hi Bene,
Megavanmats sell 7mm foil faced closed cell foam with self adhesive backing very similar to Armaflex at £40 for a 5M x 1M roll or £70 for 10M. I was going to use Armaflex but saw this so I bought 5M to try. Unfortunately it looks like they just sold out but worth enquiring and delivery was next day and free. Good people to deal with.
Duncan.

You may have seen on my thread?... i used silent coat spread around the van and then use climaflex pipe insulation stood upright behind the panels. I used one for 15mm pipe with 25mm wall. Im happy with it

I've always wondered just how effective insulation can be. Surely you have to cover EVERY surface, or you're wasting your time? That's floor, walls, doors, roof, windows, and every little crack and join in between? Every door gap and window close? Or am I missing something here?

Your missing something........ Everything helps

I've just covered the large surfaces (fixed high top) with the foil backed stuff and I think it feels warmed with it than without it, plus it helps keep the van cooler in summer. I didn't insulate all the metal posts, joints etc, as apart from being awkward I like them visible and accessible should I need to do stuff (I 'refine' stuff a lot!).

When I re-did my Kombi interior in 2005 I used a closed-cell polyurethane foam ~12mm sheet, purchased from Reimo. This was cut to the size of the panel and glued in place with spray contact adhesive. Where there was space I used multiple layers, particularly in the roof. This material is non-water absorbent, thermally and acoustically insulating. I also fitted double glazed Westfalia windows in the same re-fit. I have been quite happy with the results.

I used 'Classic Acoustics' products; (based in Telford)

Both self adhesive - with high temp adhesive.

a thin hardish rubber (about 2mm thck) to deaden the sound.
24mm closed cell fire retardent insulation foam.

Makes an incredible difference to the noise. regards insulation, it makes a bit and i'd sooner have a bit than nowt.
not cheap but its quality product.
They can provide silver coated stuff if you prefer.

Each person has a different need/use for their vehicle so it seems there are an infinite ways that insulation is done.


Maybe it is just in the UK that people can spend literally thousands of pounds TDIing, different gear set ups, massively useless tyres that
needed a couple of grand to mod the van to fit & get stuck in the mud easier but look good.
Pop tops, potties, a million things on the dash to tell them different stuff & a build thread to prove it,
even if they have actually never built anything themselves. And be perfectly happy with a bit of B&Q bubble wrap stuffed in a panel or two.
So Ben, no need to be an apologist when it comes to talking about insulation & the syncro!
Surely one goes hand in hand with the other, at some point in a syncro's life.


I think it's difficult to justify spending much to insulate a vehicle that is showing a lot of metal, lot's of window glass an open cab & lot's of leaky bits.
But as Lloydy sagely put, everything helps.

Mine is kind of a box at the back. A wooden box as the army had it with two windows, soon to be acrylic double glazed.
I thought about ripping the bulkhead out, fitting pop tops, & ripping the lovely old 4mm seasoned Baltic birch ply out & burning it.
& then I thought NOOOOOOO! that will surely make me cold & i've a soft spot for the roof, it looks in keeping with the van.

So my plan, which I am sure will differ from most, is to utilise the box for it's energy saving, warmth/cooling & general cosy snugness when travelling in
cold climates. Clean up & sand down the old wood, line that wood perhaps with some Robbins 0.5 teak laminates for cosmetics. And then insulate the little box
to buggery.

With either

Aerogel ~ 0.015 W/mK £37 per m2 @ 10mm
http://www.coreprosystems.co.uk/thermal ... -spaceloft" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or Proctors group (both top quality service)

Armaflex O ~ f 0.030 W/mK £40 per m2 @ 19mm
http://www.minsteronline.co.uk/product/ ... f-adhesive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Armaflex for the deeper cavities & as you can see in the photo
I may be able to get some 10mm Aerogel in the tighter spots where the ply meets the pillars
& is snug to the body panels. If not then perhaps 5mm Aerogel.


So I guess it all depends where we are going with are buses & what we really want them for.
But I wouldn't think someone a fool if they want to spend a grand on insulating a van well & nailing down the draughts if he plans
to do some serious travelling.

The other criteria for my van is that I want to inspect the panels occasionally & keep the bus as original as can be practical.

Self adhesive foil backed Aerogel & self adhesive Armaflex at a reasonable thickness are expensive & if overlapping cold bridges, cab & everywhere possible may well cost in excess of £700
once all the other materials are considered.

I think Lloyds idea of using that pipe lagging is genius. Probably will stuff some in mine as well for the deeper cavities!

The black doesnt really highlight the detail but here is a shot of ours. The skin had the sound dampening stuck to it first and then the foamy stuff afterwards - a real pain of a job as the sticky stuff really sticks - so once it touches something its stuck and trying to get an oversized piece of foam through a little hole to fill a hug cavity.

Palziv 8mm self adhesive closed cell foam is supposed to be both very good and very cheap.
Rob.

I've used stuff in the link below in the front cab doors, in seat boxes and inside rear arches. Covered the rest of the space inside with closed cell foam (& superfoil SF40). I can now hear my kids argue in the back.

http://www.noisestopsystems.co.uk/sound ... estop-foam

You'll save a lot of money by NOT looking for auto specific insulation which are in my view substandard compared to the above.

After spending £000's on Dynamax in the beetle, I'll never make that mistake again.

Awesome! Cheers everybody! I'm sure once I digest all this I will have more annoying questions...

Although I don't necessarily rate it above Silent Coat, for changing the natural frequency of a panel, and preventing a 'tinny' resonance, Flashband has got to go a fair way (no scientific precedent, just conjecture - works for the food industry...)). I plan on using that to cover some of the larger panels in the rear of mine later, and then go over the top with something with a good U value - sound then heat treatment.

tforturton wrote:I've always wondered just how effective insulation can be. Surely you have to cover EVERY surface, or you're wasting your time? That's floor, walls, doors, roof, windows, and every little crack and join in between? Every door gap and window close? Or am I missing something here?

Although I agree with Lloyd in part, you're not entirely wrong actually. When you insulate a large area, you focus the likelihood of condensation forming on the colder areas which haven't been touched, i.e. it'll be worse in the areas you haven't insulated than if you'd done nothing in the van. Using really effective insulating material exacerbates this effect. Simple heat loss increases in these areas also. So ideally you'd cover as much internal surface area as is possible, as we don't want water in our van - which reminds me, even with these hyper insulated vans, ventilation is a must.

dcfb77 wrote: You'll save a lot of money by NOT looking for auto specific insulation which are in my view substandard compared to the above.

I think someone mentioned it was around £50 to do the whole van with Palziv and its the same type of stuff as modern cars use, a Volkzone member used it on their beetle and said it was fantastic.
Rob.