Not a restoration.

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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby itchyfeet » 01 Jul 2018, 07:56

bigbadbob76 wrote:The big question is.... we're going to Yorkshire in two weeks time. Do We trust the bus?


As long as you drive it daily for 2 weeks and put as many miles on it as you can then you should find all the niggly bits like leaks and be confident.

WBX log engine gets down quite low when stinking hot at idle, I used 15w50 which helps hot.

Lots of people say don't fit oil pressure gauges you just worry about them :lol:
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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby bigbadbob76 » 01 Jul 2018, 08:19

itchyfeet wrote:
Lots of people say don't fit oil pressure gauges you just worry about them :lol:


True. I put 5k miles on it with the light flashing at hot idle. Haha..

It needs an mot before we go so fingers crossed it doesn't need more money spent on it.


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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby bigbadbob76 » 01 Jul 2018, 12:41

I would help if I had the rev counter set right. Haha.. we went back to Glenbrittle this morning and made it this time. Tacho was showing 4k rpm at an indicated 60mph, that can't be right methinks. I turned it up a notch and it showed abt 3k rpm @ 60 mph on the way home. Now i get 2 bar oil pressure at 2k rpm hot so will be fine at 80*C.
Glenbrittle was foggy (scots mist?) so it was too cold for the mrs to go for a swim. I got worried when she started coughing up blood though, until she coughed up a lung tumour. look away now if you're squeamish. This is the second one she's coughed up so we know it's good. She's got rid of another one. Yay. :-)

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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby 937carrera » 01 Jul 2018, 12:57

I thought you had cut your finger in a nasty way before I read the text. You seem to be remarkably positive, tough for both of you in reality no doubt.

Back to the van, according to my spreadsheet (I set it up to compare gearing of 5 and 4 speed boxes when I got my Autosleeper) 5th is geared for 19.3 mph / 1000 rpm for an ABL box so 3k, 60mph looks good.

With better oil pressure than you thought, I would say Yorkshire is looking very likely, any concerns for the MOT, other than just make sure there's no leaks
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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby RogerT » 01 Jul 2018, 13:36

Gordon Bennett! I guess there’s no point in being squeamish about these things, in your position. Good luck to you both, with the cancer and the engine.
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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby bigbadbob76 » 01 Jul 2018, 18:27

It's definitely a positive thing. One less tumour taking up space in her lungs. :-) happy days, bizarre as that may seem.

Nothing much to bother me about the mot except the never ending rust. It's in better shape than this time last year. Always at the mercy of what the mot man considers to be too much rust. Haha.

Cheers for the info on rpm/ road speed. Sounds like i've set it right this time. There's just a knob on the back of the tacho with no markings for pulses per rev or no of cylinders so it was just guess work.
RJES agrees with you http://rjes.com/html/gearbox_types.html using my DU box, 2982 RPM=55 mph which is probably roughly what I was doing when my speedo indicated 60. :wink:


I just had a shufty underneath and the coolant flange weep has sealed itself, there's a red ring around the washer that's either dried out G13 or...
I had wyns in the coolant before the re-buid and didn't drain the radiator so it might be wyns that's sealed it.
However there is a slight leak from what looks like a cap on the side of the coolant distribution, anyone know if this cap is removable? is there a seal that's replacable?
I also have an oil leak from the oil pump cover, hard to tell if it's from around the nuts or from behind the cover. it's definately not from the banked off pressure switch hole though so that's good i suppose. silver linings and all that.
I'm tempted to hang the engine off the crane and remove the heat shield, echaust silencer and engine carriers, that should let me get at the oil pump cover, it's in a really awkward position. anyone tried this before?
Last Q, is an oil leak an mot failure under the new rules?
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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby bigbadbob76 » 02 Jul 2018, 09:55

I'm playing around with using an o ring on the oil pump cover.
Here's a bs037 ring under a perspex cover, it's 1.78mm thick and looks to have squished nicely, at least where the bolts are, the 6mm Perspex has bent so the squish is less between the bolts.
The fact that the Perspex has bent might suggest the ring is too thick.
But anyway, the diameter is slightly too small so i had to slide the cover around to get it to stretch in.
I can't do that on the engine with the studs in so have ordered a 1.5mm x 65mm viton ring and will check the squish again before fitting.

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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby itchyfeet » 02 Jul 2018, 10:13

better off spending your time on the pump body no benefit to oil pressure on the cover
I have some orings if you need for the body o ring mod.
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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby 937carrera » 02 Jul 2018, 10:47

I was using the ABL box as an "mid" WB, I dropped the ratios in from vwt3.com for a DU and it came out with 18.3 / 1000 rpm so 55 mph at 2982 (wherever that non round number came from), so the same :)

Leaks are part of the MOT now, though I haven't had to go through one yet so don't know strict the test is, I'm sure there'll be some element of judgement.

I take it you are looking at the leak from the oil pump as a potential issue. I think you have two choices, take the van to the MOT guy and say "is this going to be a problem" or fix it. I know you will want to fix it, question is do you need to do it now, or later after MOT and holidays.

If you are going to fix it then I think you need to really identify where the weep is coming from. It could be where the endplate goes over the pump, or could it be coming from one of the 4 "special & expensive" bolts with built in seals (assuming you didn't buy new) or it could be coming down the side of the body which is the o ring mod itchy has referred to comes in.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the groove you are looking to put an o ring in is there to "throw" excess oil coming off the gears back into the pump. I didn't understand what was written so may have wrongly described it and still don't really understand the function of that groove. Can't find it again quickly either so could easily have been from the wider type 4 engine world. It does look like it "should" have an o ring in though :roll:
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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby itchyfeet » 02 Jul 2018, 11:39

bigbadbob76 wrote:However there is a slight leak from what looks like a cap on the side of the coolant distribution, anyone know if this cap is removable? is there a seal that's replacable?
I also have an oil leak from the oil pump cover, hard to tell if it's from around the nuts or from behind the cover. it's definately not from the banked off pressure switch hole though so that's good i suppose. silver linings and all that.
I'm tempted to hang the engine off the crane and remove the heat shield, echaust silencer and engine carriers, that should let me get at the oil pump cover, it's in a really awkward position. anyone tried this before?
Last Q, is an oil leak an mot failure under the new rules?
BBB.


didn't spot this was looking away from the gruesome picture!

The coolant tower distrubutor thinngy behind bulkhead is one pievce no seal if it's leaking you need sikaflex or a new one.

Oil pump leaks can be deceptive, I founf what I thought was an oil pump leak was it running down from the oil breather tower, the tower was distorted.

I have changed the pump by taking the silencer, engine bar and tin off, I used blocks of wood to support the engine. and some wire to tie up the coolant bottle.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=155022&start=300#p8213511
and again with the oring...
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=155022&start=315#p8214547

I filled the groove with curil T
Image
Last edited by itchyfeet on 02 Jul 2018, 11:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby itchyfeet » 02 Jul 2018, 11:41

937carrera wrote:
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the groove you are looking to put an o ring in is there to "throw" excess oil coming off the gears back into the pump. I didn't understand what was written so may have wrongly described it and still don't really understand the function of that groove. Can't find it again quickly either so could easily have been from the wider type 4 engine world. It does look like it "should" have an o ring in though :roll:


I was told it was to keep the paper gasket 'wet'
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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby bigbadbob76 » 02 Jul 2018, 12:23

I've rigged the old pump for pressure testing the cover seal. Due to the band in the perspex it leaks, but the steel cover should be better.

Image

Just for info, old pump is a Febi, stamped '97, measures 70.02mm o/d.
Last edited by bigbadbob76 on 02 Jul 2018, 15:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby 937carrera » 02 Jul 2018, 12:29

Good idea,

What pressure does it leak at, can you try without the o-ring, or with the endplate ?
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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby itchyfeet » 02 Jul 2018, 13:08

got an old cover here I can post if you want
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Re: Not a restoration.

Postby bigbadbob76 » 02 Jul 2018, 13:33

Thanks guys, lots to think on there.
I realised I had overtightened the Perspex cover until it bent, this won't happen with the metal cover but also proves the o ring as a wee bitty too thick and the 1.5 will hopfully do the trick.
Having backed off the bolts a tad so they're only just nipped up, I re-tested it and it passes the 6 bar pressure test. :-)
Yes please and thanks Paul, yes a spare cover would be good for pressure testing. :ok
Pressure testing will rule out this seal from the list of potential leak points.
That just leaves the body and the nuts, the body has a gasket so "shouldn't" leak, the o ring mod I thought was to improve pump efficiency? although the double o ring idea might help keep the oil in.
That leaves the "special" nuts. I used the yellow sealant on plain nuts, so they maybe need attention. Nylocs and dirko maybe.

I was told by a reputable engineer just today, that you should put the cover gasket on dry and the oil in the groove will wet it and expand it. sounds plausible to me. :idea

Cheers for having changed the pump in situ Paul, that gives me hope, good point about the water bottle, that'll save draining the coolant.
I'll see what I can do about sealing the distributor tower when I change the temp sensor. shame it's not a removable cap. oh well, one more drip.

The bus is booked in for it's MOT a week today, I asked about oil leaks and he said "if it drips, it's an advisory, if it pours it's a Fail." so that's good, what about rust? I asked, he just laughed and said "well it's a VW camper..."
So I have a week to fix the oil leak, I'd rather do it before Yorkshire. :-)
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