Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

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937carrera
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by 937carrera »

bmouthboyo wrote: Could the brake carrier be ground back a few mm where it contacts the steel with smaller spacers or is that a big no no?

I would not.

The biggest stresses on a vehicle happen under braking. I also don't have the knowledge to perform stress calculations.
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by bmouthboyo »

I just remembered that 6mm was actually OK but the balancing weights hit the brake arm.

If I went back to 6mm spacers that would give me an ET of 31 again correct? Could that help with the outer wear?
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937carrera
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by 937carrera »

Correct on the calc.

All I can say is it should be better, whether it will eliminate the tyre wear, I don't know, especially as there is no certainty that is actually the problem :)
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by bmouthboyo »

937carrera wrote:Correct on the calc.

All I can say is it should be better, whether it will eliminate the tyre wear, I don't know, especially as there is no certainty that is actually the problem :)

I will look over the components but other than checking for play, splits in boots etc I am not sure what else to look for in ball joints and suspension components etc.

Image

A year ago just before tracking I replaced both track rod ends, ARB bushes, drop link bushes, tie rod bushes and steering rack bushes with powerflex. I often check the ball joints for splits and will give it a good inspection this week but can you advise on what I should be looking for that might be linked to this tyre wear?

Thanks again for all the help, appreciate :ok
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937carrera
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by 937carrera »

Tou are looking for play in the ball joint area of the track rod ends or ball joints themselves. They can wear without the boot splitting. As they have already been replaced I'm getting the impression the van is pretty fresh on the front end (photo just added confirms this). You'll need a pry bar to check for play, see first reply.

One curiosity is your caster angle. I don't know why that would be so far out unless something is bent or the chassis is out of line ??

Were tyres wearing normally until you fitted the new wheels ?

How do you fancy adding some extra negative camber to counteract whatever is causing the outside wear. Definitely non standard, but might work. Will take the inner edge closer to the brake carrier though
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by nevill3 »

How soon after all the new bits was the tracking alignment done? Have you checked it again since, maybe things have bedded in a little and thrown the settings out.

I have had good results from using the string method to check my front wheel alignment at home. see here for a table to convert the degrees to millimeters.
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937carrera
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by 937carrera »

Good idea to see what the current settings are, it could have been thrown out by kerbing a wheel or a pothole
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by bmouthboyo »

Thanks for the input guys.

Had wheels off today and had a look. Everything seems solid still, no noticeable wear or movement from the components.

The full alignment was done straight after replacing all the components I mentioned. I had not been with the van for 4 years prior to that so nothing to compare it to really.

I replaced the 10mm spacers with the 6mm I had and will check if the weights foul the brake support arm, if so I will grind the weights back a bit and have them relocated next time I visit a tyre shop.

I am happy to adjust anything if you think it might help reduce this wear as it will quickly become expensive if I have to replace tyres at this rate!

Which component do you suggest adjusting and by how much? If I am methodical and measure the turns of nut and do equally on both sides should this generally keep things balanced?

I have also had someone recommend different tyre pressure and have been given a figure of 28psi up front and 31 in rear. I was told this was calculated from the tyre max load and usual autosleeper campervan weight, might this help?

In an ideal world I would just have it realigned but at 90 pounds a pop for the full alignment I cannot afford that regularly. :(
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by bigherb »

Find someone who can do proper alignment, the wheels need to go on sector plates and toe measured at 20 deg lock it should be 1deg 10 minutes +-20 minutes, if it is way out then you need to sort out wheels that will fit properly.
Last edited by bigherb on 28 Aug 2018, 17:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by bmouthboyo »

bigherb wrote:Find someone who can do proper alignment the wheels need to go on sector plates and toe measured at 20 deg lock it should be 1deg 10 minutes +-20 minutes, if it is way out then you need to sort out wheels that will fit properly.

OK I am due an MOT soon so will see if I can find a place that is good at this kind of thing. What settings do I ask them to aim for given my wheels?
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by bigherb »

bmouthboyo wrote: What settings do I ask them to aim for given my wheels?
If you can't meet those settings change the wheels for ones that work.
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by 937carrera »

It's no good adjusting unless you can measure.

Have a read here http://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/St ... _Alignment

Others have done this utilising string. I have my own tracking / camber gauges now, in the past have used string with metal rule, planks of wood with chalk etc. It's all possible, but you need to be methodical and measure after every adjustment, including moving the van back and forwards a few times to settle the suspension.

You really need a level floor to be doing camber (plumb line or spirit level plus rule), tracking can be done without.

Help will be on hand if you need it, as you can see others have done it using simple tools - BUT thanks to your wider wheels simply setting in the straight ahead position may not be sufficient, hence Bigherbs comments above.

It might be worth doing a measurement yourself before taking it to do the proper alignment, though be aware it could take a few hours experience before you get reproducible / reliable measurements ??
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937carrera
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by 937carrera »

bmouthboyo wrote:
I have also had someone recommend different tyre pressure and have been given a figure of 28psi up front and 31 in rear. I was told this was calculated from the tyre max load and usual autosleeper campervan weight,

Look here for tyre pressure advice, that advice is very suspect, you'll have the inner edge wearing off as well

http://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/Wh ... es_-_Tyres
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by bmouthboyo »

937carrera wrote:It's no good adjusting unless you can measure.

Have a read here http://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/St ... _Alignment

Others have done this utilising string. I have my own tracking / camber gauges now, in the past have used string with metal rule, planks of wood with chalk etc. It's all possible, but you need to be methodical and measure after every adjustment, including moving the van back and forwards a few times to settle the suspension.

You really need a level floor to be doing camber (plumb line or spirit level plus rule), tracking can be done without.

Help will be on hand if you need it, as you can see others have done it using simple tools - BUT thanks to your wider wheels simply setting in the straight ahead position may not be sufficient, hence Bigherbs comments above.

It might be worth doing a measurement yourself before taking it to do the proper alignment, though be aware it could take a few hours experience before you get reliable measurements ??

OK I think it is best leaving this to the Pros... again. I will take it to a shop, but I am just a bit unsure what to ask for as that is what I did last time and ended up with this uneven wear. I know my wheels and tyres are not ideal but others have managed to have similar sizes and even wear so it must be possible.

Few last questions:
1) Do I need to have a full tracking setup again? (last one was £90)
2) Should I ask them to aim for the standard VW specs (see attachment) or not?
3) If not what should I be asking them to aim for? Do I just tell them the wheel specs, ET31 etc and they calculate it?

Sorry for all the questions I am just a bit lost. I am not going to flog all the wheels and tyres and start from scratch as I am sure it is within the realm of reason that these wheels can be tracked adequately.
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Re: Outer tyre wear a year on from tracking

Post by 937carrera »

If they don't understand what Bigherb posted walk away. Take the spec sheet from the Wiki.

Ask if they'll just measure up for free, some do.

bigherb wrote:Find someone who can do proper alignment, the wheels need to go on sector plates and toe measured at 20 deg lock it should be 1deg 10 minutes +-20 minutes, if it is way out then you need to sort out wheels that will fit properly.

ps. Sector plates are also known as turn plates
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