Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

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pondering
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Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by pondering »

First post and a campervan newbie so apologies in advance for any posting 'faux pas' ! I've just bought a 1987 T25 Autohomes Kameo and am pondering a few things, first being to replace the not working Electrolux RM212 with possibly a Waeco CRX50. If anyone is using the latter (or similar), did you self install and if so, how easy was it? I'm a little concerned that it may be noisy (a subjective measure I know) and how much it will drain my 'leisure' (engine type battery I think 075 to fit in the passenger seat battery box). The latter is also why I'm considering fitting a Zig CF8 into the 'hole' that there is for it (it was an option at build and the wiring appears to be in place), so that I can charge the 'leisure' battery from EHU. If not Zig, is there any other panel/anything else I should consider? I was told that there is a relay on the main/engine battery to charge the 'leisure' battery when driving, but I forgot to look/check what type (VSR or not?) before posting; sorry.

Thanks in advance for any comments/suggestions.
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AngeloEvs
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by AngeloEvs »

I purchased a waeco CDF 18 about 18 years ago and still have it and use it in my T25. It is portable so not fitted but installation of yours should be fairly straightforward. The compressor can be heard but we never considered it as a problem and it only switches on every so often. They are very efficient regards current consumption and my zig CF 8 has no problem maintaining the leisure battery when on hook up. A waeco compressor fridge is far superior to an absorption fridge (based on our experience of touring Greece and Crete in temperatures of 40 degrees C).
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by pondering »

AngeloEvs wrote:I purchased a waeco CDF 18 about 18 years ago and still have it and use it in my T25. It is portable so not fitted but installation of yours should be fairly straightforward. The compressor can be heard but we never considered it as a problem and it only switches on every so often. They are very efficient regards current consumption and my zig CF 8 has no problem maintaining the leisure battery when on hook up. A waeco compressor fridge is far superior to an absorption fridge (based on our experience of touring Greece and Crete in temperatures of 40 degrees C).

Thanks. Have you run your fridge for any length of time not on EHU? If so, for how long before recharging? Are you still using an 075 engine battery as the 'leisure' or have you replaced it with a proper leisure battery? If the latter, is it in the battery 'box' behind the passenger seat (where mine is) or somewhere else?
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AngeloEvs
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by AngeloEvs »

I use a 80Ahr leisure battery which is located in my kitchen unit. Difficult to specify how long a battery alone could run it because of the variables such as ambient temperature, the temperature setting you select, the current consumption of your fridge model and what other 12v leisure items you have (radio, tv, lighting, etc).

I have used mine on 12v for a day or two but I have never been in a situation where the van would be parked for longer than that other than our Hymer which had 100W solar panel and we could use the fridge continuously. Waeco compressor fridges are designed for leisure and feature a very low consumption compressor.

An other important consideration is that you do not have to park level with a compressor fridge (unlike absorption fridges).
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

There is so little to go wrong with an absorption fridge - what have you tested? ( 1 x 12v element, 1 x 230v element and the flame)
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pondering
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by pondering »

AngeloEvs wrote:I use a 80Ahr leisure battery which is located in my kitchen unit. Difficult to specify how long a battery alone could run it because of the variables such as ambient temperature, the temperature setting you select, the current consumption of your fridge model and what other 12v leisure items you have (radio, tv, lighting, etc).

I have used mine on 12v for a day or two but I have never been in a situation where the van would be parked for longer than that other than our Hymer which had 100W solar panel and we could use the fridge continuously. Waeco compressor fridges are designed for leisure and feature a very low consumption compressor.

An other important consideration is that you do not have to park level with a compressor fridge (unlike absorption fridges).

A day or two would be a good start !

Do you know please how your fridge is wired to run off of 12V via the Zig panel ? I ask because in the 'Instructions for Use & Fitting' of the CF8 it says on page 3, point 2, under IMPORTANT NOTES; 'Refridgerators: These should never be connected to the CF8 (see INSTRUCTIONS FOR FITTING) In a properly wired system, the fridge is connected directly to the vehicle battery by an independent cable. It's operation is not affected by the CF8 controls. The fitting of a Zig RM14 relay will ensure that the fridge only draws current when the engine is running' !? :?

Perhaps I'm missing something but this appears to say that the fridge gets it's power from the engine (starter/main) battery and only if the engine is running ?! And so not via any of the 12V protected circuits on the Zig panel ?! It makes sense that the fridge shouldn't flatten the engine battery, but how then is the Waeco wired to run on 12V if not via the Zig, and not flatten the leisure battery? This is all 'dark' new ground to me so I'd be very pleased if you, or anyone, can throw some light onto it.
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by pondering »

Oldiebut goodie wrote:There is so little to go wrong with an absorption fridge - what have you tested? ( 1 x 12v element, 1 x 230v element and the flame)

I haven't tested anything; the seller of the van said it just wasn't firing up. I want to remove the old fridge for the space it takes so that I can fit a small oven (probably Thetford 420) and use the existing gas line/piping. So I need a smaller fridge to fit in the cupboard next to it (max width 400mm), hence looking at the small width (380mm) Waeco and compressor so no need for another gas connection.
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by sternal »

The current fridge you have in your van is only designed to run off 12v when driving.

When you’re parked up on site the fridge will only run from 240v (mains) or gas never from 12v
The zig unit at that point if connected to leisure battery will be trickle charging it or being used for a light or water pump.
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by pondering »

sternal wrote:The current fridge you have in your van is only designed to run off 12v when driving.

When you’re parked up on site the fridge will only run from 240v (mains) or gas never from 12v
The zig unit at that point if connected to leisure battery will be trickle charging it or being used for a light or water pump.

Okay, thanks. If the new fridge IS designed to run off 12V when not connected to mains, do you think that I can connect it to the Zig unit - there is a spare terminal (12) on the Zig 'connector block' ?
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by AngeloEvs »

E D I T. The CRX 50 spec regards 24 hr power consumption is.

5 degrees thermostat - 26 degrees ambient temp - 0.26 Kw and 0.54Kw with 32 degree ambient temp.

Input current is 5A

Over a 24 hour period your leisure battery will have to provide approx 20A with ambient temp of 26 degrees, more if hotter and less if cooler.





The specification for the waeco fridge you are interested in will state the current consumption and the average consumption over a 24 hour period. Mine is approx 4A but this is drawn in short bursts when the compressor operates for about a minute or so every 15 or 20 minutes. The On Off duty cycle may be less or it may be more depending on ambient temperature and your chosen thermostat setting. Mine is set for about 4degrees rather than freezing and, during the night in the UK, comes on very occasionally.

Mine, being portable, is connected to the leisure battery via a 12 v socket, fuse, etc, so that we can put it in the awning or move it elsewhere. Yours, as a fixed appliance will be wired directly to the leisure battery with the option of using a 240v ac supply when on hook up if your waeco model supports both power options.

As for testing absorption fridges, I have used them for longer than I care to admit but the real test was during a 2 year tour of Europe where the waeco significantly out performed the absorption fridge which, in high temperatures, was nothing more than a storage box. When I stripped my T25 out to a bare shell, as others find, the floor behind the absorption fridge was rotten. The condensation and the need for external ventilation is not kind to these vans, which is why, after carrying out the repairs on my van I removed the 3 way fridge, sealed the vents and just used our trusty waeco. If it failed I would buy another but mine still works after 18 years of use.

I would read through the specification of a model you like then do a search for user reviews.
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by pondering »

AngeloEvs wrote:E D I T. The CRX 50 spec regards 24 hr power consumption is.

5 degrees thermostat - 26 degrees ambient temp - 0.26 Kw and 0.54Kw with 32 degree ambient temp.

Input current is 5A

Over a 24 hour period your leisure battery will have to provide approx 20A with ambient temp of 26 degrees, more if hotter and less if cooler.


... Mine, being portable, is connected to the leisure battery via a 12 v socket, fuse, etc, so that we can put it in the awning or move it elsewhere. Yours, as a fixed appliance will be wired directly to the leisure battery with the option of using a 240v ac supply when on hook up if your waeco model supports both power options.

... When I stripped my T25 out to a bare shell, as others find, the floor behind the absorption fridge was rotten. The condensation and the need for external ventilation is not kind to these vans, which is why, after carrying out the repairs on my van I removed the 3 way fridge, sealed the vents and just used our trusty waeco. If it failed I would buy another but mine still works after 18 years of use.


Thanks for your comments and the consumption data. The Waeco CRX 50 does support 240v via an adapter (MPS35) but at £79 ! Which is why I was exploring the Zig CF8 (new retail £135 but a few used on ebay/Gumtree at c £40) because of it's built in battery charger to charge the leisure battery on which the fridge runs rather than the direct adapter. If you use EHU and charge your leisure battery via mains, what components please do you have to do this and manage your 12v circuits ? The Zig panel seems 'tidy'/space saving (charger & distribtion all together) over trying to accomodate individual components in the compact spaces of the lovely T25 ! Also what leisure battery(ies) do you use please. The small box behind the passenger seat is where my one is and I'm wondering if/where I can add another (in parallel) to support the fridge if away from EHU for a few days...

PS. I've removed the old fridge but must look closer at the floor in view of your experience !
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by AngeloEvs »

I have a ZIG CF8, probably the most popular unit fitted to older campers. The CF8 has a max charge of around 4 amps which is regulated and more than adequate for a permanent charge connection. Plenty of information regards fitting and how to connect in the WIKI and by doing a google search.

Regards leisure battery, if using the compartment behind the seat then you are limited to using a conventional starter battery due to the limited space available. A conventional battery is not designed to endure periods of deep discharge and why a leisure battery is a better choice if you are intending to wild camp for several days using your fridge and other electrical items.

I use a 80A/hr leisure battery and this is located in the kitchen unit close to the starter battery. The Zig was also mounted on the kitchen unit simplifying the wiring and reducing the length of cable runs required required. A lot depends on wether you wish to retain the original layout or wether you are thinking of changing it.

You do not need to connect the fridge to the CF8 and probably better to connect directly to your battery via a fuse and a separate switch though the latter is not really needed.
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by pondering »

AngeloEvs wrote:I have a ZIG CF8, probably the most popular unit fitted to older campers. The CF8 has a max charge of around 4 amps which is regulated and more than adequate for a permanent charge connection. Plenty of information regards fitting and how to connect in the WIKI and by doing a google search.

Regards leisure battery, if using the compartment behind the seat then you are limited to using a conventional starter battery due to the limited space available. A conventional battery is not designed to endure periods of deep discharge and why a leisure battery is a better choice if you are intending to wild camp for several days using your fridge and other electrical items.

I use a 80A/hr leisure battery and this is located in the kitchen unit close to the starter battery. The Zig was also mounted on the kitchen unit simplifying the wiring and reducing the length of cable runs required required. A lot depends on wether you wish to retain the original layout or wether you are thinking of changing it.

You do not need to connect the fridge to the CF8 and probably better to connect directly to your battery via a fuse and a separate switch though the latter is not really needed.

Very helpful comments, thanks. It's good to know you're using a Zig CF8. I was thrown of it by someone I talked to at Widney Leisure (Zig is their product) who said that the 12v circuit would only have power when on EHU !? What position do you put the switches in to get 12v power when wild camping and not driving ? I've found labelled wires: fridge ign, water pump, input, lights (and some not labelled) in connector blocks tucked away to the side of the square (Zig) hole, which is at eye level just forward of bed seat. So fingers crossed wiring it in may not be a nightmare !

Re leisure battery; I got the box dimensions from the WIKI and found this 75Ah: https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/product/abs-lp75/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that looks like it will fit. Sadly no space in my nearby kitchen cupboard as that's taken by the fridge and oven. Pondering a (very) small 'Buddy seat' box just in front of the existing battery box for a second battery... Do you have just the one 80Ah leisure battery and manage okay on that ? Do you have or have you explored solar to power it ?

I really appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions. It's good to be able to get help from people who've 'trod the path/been there, done that' :ok
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by AngeloEvs »

The ZIG CF8 comprises two parts - a battery charger that will work when on Hook Up and the switch/fuse section which feeds the various electrical items connected to the leisure battery. Your leisure battery will feed into the Zig CF8 and, wether you are on hook up or not, the CF8 will function as normal. However, when not on hook up, the battery charge function will not be available. The CF8 has a mains on off switch for the internal battery charger, a 'Touring/On-site' switch which, when driving, is set to 'Touring' and the leisure battery is charged from the alternator or set to 'On Site' when on hook up so that the battery can be charged from the internal charger. There is also a 'On Off' switch which simply disconnects the 12V supply from all electrical equipment that is fed via the CF8.

You will also need a separate relay that charges the leisure battery when driving, this relay or the charge output should be connected to the CF8 On Site/Touring Switch. There are many options to do this such as using a 'smart relay' which is simpler to connect and how mine is connected.

My T25 has one leisure battery and I manage fine for a couple of days or so. When we toured europe we had a 100W solar panel on the roof and two leisure batteries which worked extremely well for the days we were not on campsites, the downside was that in high temperatures we could not park in the shade. In the end, with 40 degrees of heat, we opted for camp sites when ever available. If I were to use a solar panel again I would look at the flexible types that can be rolled up and placed virtually anywhere.
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Re: Compressor fridge and Zig CF8

Post by LeeME3 »

A few points on the CR50...I have one and it is great. With a 100Ah leisure battery and 100W of solar panel I can pretty much run it continuously without needing EHU. My other demands on the leisure battery are low to medium I'd say - a few LED lights, phone charging and occasional stereo plus water pump for the sink. If the fridge is getting opened a lot and the sun isn't shining (or I've not parked well to make the most of the panel...) it can run the battery down a bit to the point where the fridge's own low voltage protection cuts in and saves your battery (whereupon, obviously, the fridge starts to warm up...). But that is the exception rather than the rule and takes a good 2-3 days of adverse conditions to happen.

However, you really MUST pay attention to the wiring instructions that come with it. It needs very high gauge wire, mainly to cope with the current surge as the compressor kicks in. There is a chart in the manual that allows you to calculate wire gauge needed against total wire length - don't forget to include the earth return! If at all possible minimize all wire lengths and the number of components in the way - eg fuses, switches etc. However, just to contradict myself somewhat...you will need a fuse in the line somewhere (on the + supply side and pref close to the battery) and you may want a separate switch. There is no obvious on/off switch on the CR50 so it is easy to inadvertently leave it on. You can turn it off by turning the thermostat all the way to zero - there is a positive click as it goes from 1 to zero so you know it is off.

I don't find the noise a problem, although I do tend to turn it to a lower setting at night just to help preserve the battery and to stop it clicking in and out so often. But I don't think that is really necessary just me being paranoid. Obviously chucking a few freezer packs in when you load it up is no bad thing and helps it get down to temperature with less power draw. That said generally the first part of your trip is when driving so it should get nice and cold without depleting the battery assuming your split charger (and alternator) is up to the job.

Easy to self-install (noting the bits about wiring...) and various fitting kits are available to give it a more OEM look if you're trying to match a Westy or other quality interior.

The ice box is surprisingly useful and will keep ice cream frozen / make ice.

I've added a couple pics so you can see how it looks in my DIY interior. I chose to raise mine off the floor a bit to aid air circulation but I'm sure that isn't really necessary. Still had room to make a little cutlery drawer above it!

Do consider adding a solar panel set up as then you have the rather nice scenario whereby the more the sun shines the colder you can get your beer - now THAT is physics working in your favour for once!

All of that said, in my little Eriba Puck caravan I have an RM212 and find that a great bit of kit too, especially working on gas it is very efficient, silent and gets very cold. So the combo of my T25 pulling my puck gives me more cooling capacity when camping than at home. See earlier comment ref cold beer for how important this is!

Lots more info on various forums (inc this one) on the CR50 but feel free to ask any questions you might have.

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1986 1.9DG WBX LPG, 4 spd manual. Westy poptop. Renogy lithium leisure. 175W solar. CR50 fridge. Propex. RX8 seats.

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