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Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 16:59
by Simon Baxter
silverbullet wrote:PS I can appreciate that this is very much a beta. With the benefit of hindsight maybe using a second M-code list as a post-production checklist would narrow down potential errors in cataloging modifictions?


Not sure I understand.

Maybe rather than space or comma separated values a load of text boxes set to 3 digits maybe better?

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 17:00
by Simon Baxter
I also need to look why Gary D managed to get a character space in his Reg number

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 17:02
by Simon Baxter
Is 80-90 membership number or syncronauts number of any relevance?

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 17:11
by syncroandy
I get the impression you're adapting another system rather than starting from scratch and building an 'ideal' system, so I appreciate you may be having to compromise. Maybe a clear distinction should be drawn between 'as built' data and the 'current state'. Ideally yes you should be capturing what is (was) on the white sticker, if that is missing maybe you should take the view a record cannot be created until the owner goes away and does their research. It doesn't seem to be asking too much to expect them to know and provide:

VIN
Engine code
Paint code
Gearbox code

Alternatively the model-code is on the plate under the passenger seat and a lot can robustly derived from that instead of relying on possibly haphazard user input. eg. mine are:

252 GC5 = Typ 2 'van' Syncro, MV engine, RHD
246 097 = Typ 2 'dropside van' Syncro, JX engine, RHD

The lists are all in ETKA under V-pages.

For M-code options like 'twin slider' etc. it'd be nice to have these selectable from a pop-up containing the common ones.

Build-date could be derived from the VIN.

I know it's easier said than done. .. :D

Simon Baxter wrote:It's difficult this.
I'm sure there are better ways of gathering data more accurately, things like taking data from the white paper sticker but some are now missing.
The paper sticker is also in the service book, who has one of those anymore?
There is the metal plate under the left front seat, PKN plate if you wish but it's not present of models with swivelling seats so Westy owners would not be able to use that.
Leaving the form open for people to add details themselves is also leaving it open to errors but I think that's something we're going to have to accept.
I can already see errors in the test data, I'm hoping it's people just entering stuff as I've asked but I can see a few "Type24" vans... :lol:
It would be nice to use PKN data as a reasonably accurate build date could be ascertained, maybe come back to this at a later date.
I will put a support ticket in with the form people to see if there is a way of stopping van bodies being selected if they have type 24 in the chassis and vise versa, stop people having a type 25 pick up..

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 17:17
by syncroandy
Simon Baxter wrote:Is 80-90 membership number or syncronauts number of any relevance?


We probably shouldn't limit the scope to just those people ?

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 18:16
by syncroandy
Re. 'vehicle status' the problem with that is will change as time goes by, so will rapidly become 'stale' data. Status can easily be checked via the DVLA website so I'd suggest omitting this from the registry.

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 18:20
by silverbullet
Simon Baxter wrote:
silverbullet wrote:PS I can appreciate that this is very much a beta. With the benefit of hindsight maybe using a second M-code list as a post-production checklist would narrow down potential errors in cataloging modifictions?


Not sure I understand.

Maybe rather than space or comma separated values a load of text boxes set to 3 digits maybe better?

In other words, two sections using the full M code list (as known to exist) that can be ticked off by the owner.

Suggested headings:

Original M codes (if known)
Modifications to oem spec*

* e.g. PAS, HD mirrors etc

Then have "other mods" as a text box.

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 18:29
by syncroandy
The M-code options are complicated. Not all of them apply to all body types. Some 'standard packages' have a number of options implicit, and which are therefore not identified elsewhere. eg. my pickup has the following on the sticker:

FN9
KS3
074 Mud flaps, rear
571 Rear fog lamp
621 Alternator, 90A
643 Tray for doors, front
675 Revolution counter
954 Michelin XTX 185R14C 8PR / XC / XZX tyres

However it also has the following options fitted, but not listed on the sticker:

020 Speedometer in Miles (245-256)
032 Lockable fuel cap
050 Warning light for the handbrake and brake fluid level
089 Windscreen in laminated glass (245-256)
187 Headlamps for driving on the left
210 Front differential lock (Syncro models)
299 4 Wheel Drive (Syncro package.)
551 Headlights with halogen bulbs (H4)

You could contemplate coding the database to present only 'valid' M-codes for a given body type, but ultimately I think there'd still be flaws.

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 18:54
by silverbullet
Good point Andy, maybe just keeping it to "known modifications" and listing them is actually easier to read than a string of numbers that would need cross-referencing to make any sense to those who aren't a walking parts book.

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 19:07
by syncroandy
Actually I'm not convinced its worth trying to record modifications at all, apart from maybe engine type and paint colour.

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 19:08
by Simon Baxter
just heard back from a support ticket about only allowing certain field to be selected depending on a previous choice so I'm going to take it off for a bit..

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 19:11
by mrhutch
top marks chap...

if you want someone to look at the 0&1's then bell me, no probs donating a few hours to that cause.

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 19:20
by silverbullet
syncroandy wrote:Actually I'm not convinced its worth trying to record modifications at all, apart from maybe engine type and paint colour.

Have to disagree with that. How many started out as 'velles and now have Westy roofs and interiors, or panel vans now more like kombis?
The VIN says what it WAS thanks to the birth certificate (if you want to pay for one)
This register will state what it IS at present.
As a side benefit it may help the unwary purchaser in the future, this being more of a Westy problem than anything else.

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 19:27
by Simon Baxter
syncroandy wrote:Re. 'vehicle status' the problem with that is will change as time goes by, so will rapidly become 'stale' data. Status can easily be checked via the DVLA website so I'd suggest omitting this from the registry.


it's a snap shot at the time of the survey, I think it would be useful in the future to look back and see if it was in use or a project, i thought anyway but yeah, I see what you're saying with the DVLA.
I think registering scrapped vans would also be useful, any suggestions as to what to change those fields to?

Re: UK T3 Syncro Register

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2016, 19:31
by syncroandy
Not sure that came out how you meant it Ian.. I think I hear what you're saying, but wouldn't a registry serve a useful purpose if it DID capture the 'as built' vehicle state, so in your example a prospective purchaser could compare what was in front of him/her with how it left VW ?

My main reservation is simply the GIGO effect. There's no point trying to keep data which is in a contant state of change without robust means to ensure its accuracy is maintained.

(Though I've never been employed as a database person, I was in the IT game since the '80 and have had plenty of exposure to these sort of issues.)