generation v engines

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generation v engines

Postby axeman » 04 Jan 2016, 17:19

more as a point of interest really as most of the tdi,gti and subaru engines are now at least 15 years old now so hardly new, is or have people considered putting something more modern in to these old buses or is there too much comfort is sticking with what we all know.

just thinking

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Last edited by axeman on 04 Jan 2016, 17:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: generation v engines

Postby ratinyho » 04 Jan 2016, 17:35

Pm'd you a few times about the doka drawers i bought from you mate..
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Re: generation v engines

Postby lloydy » 04 Jan 2016, 17:50

I don't see the point in putting something newer in, the newer the engine the less the revs/torque suit our gearboxes. Much better to just buy/build a new engine, its not old then.
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Re: generation v engines

Postby syncropaddy » 04 Jan 2016, 18:34

Unless someone comes out with a transmission with a suitable set of ratios and an ECU to suit a more modern engine, I think people will stay with what has become the norm.
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Re: generation v engines

Postby syncroandy » 04 Jan 2016, 18:34

Wut ? For VAG engine donors up till 2005 there's a fair few to choose from. For example the 20v turbo is popular. The later block VE-pump TDI are good too. Conversion parts for these are becoming more widely available now, and they have several improvements over the older style engines.
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Re: generation v engines

Postby lloydy » 04 Jan 2016, 19:42

syncroandy wrote:Wut ? For VAG engine donors up till 2005 there's a fair few to choose from. For example the 20v turbo is popular. The later block VE-pump TDI are good too. Conversion parts for these are becoming more widely available now, and they have several improvements over the older style engines.

I think Neil is talking about even newer engines than 2005. My TDI is 15 years old, but as its been rebuilt is kinda new.
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Re: generation v engines

Postby axeman » 04 Jan 2016, 19:46

syncropaddy wrote:Unless someone comes out with a transmission with a suitable set of ratios and an ECU to suit a more modern engine, I think people will stay with what has become the norm.


my little 1.8 is very happy reving the away quietly in the back ground, peak tourque comes in quite high up the rev rage which makes it suitable.

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Re: generation v engines

Postby syncropaddy » 04 Jan 2016, 21:25

axeman wrote:
syncropaddy wrote:Unless someone comes out with a transmission with a suitable set of ratios and an ECU to suit a more modern engine, I think people will stay with what has become the norm.


my little 1.8 is very happy reving the away quietly in the back ground, peak tourque comes in quite high up the rev rage which makes it suitable.

neil


How old is your little 1.8?

A VW Euro 6 190 diesel has max torque of 300 ft/lbs at around 1800 rpm so wouldn't be too good with a Syncro box in a few respects, however with the right set of ratios it would make a cracking engine. For comparison that's twice the power and torque of a 1Z TDi so would most likely rip a Syncro box apart!

The Amorak uses a 6 speed manual with a crawler of 1:20, it also has an 8 speed auto with a crawler. If you've ever driven either off road/motorway/B roads, you'll soon realise that the ratios in a Syncro box are not enough for a modern engine
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Re: generation v engines

Postby syncroandy » 04 Jan 2016, 21:47

I wasn't thinking of common-rail diesels nor I suspect was Neil. Folk seem stuck in the early to late '90's with their engine donor choices, but there are more recent options within the same sort of performance range that would work with a T3 transmission.
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Re: generation v engines

Postby lloydy » 04 Jan 2016, 21:52

maybe we all need to stop being so vague then? :lol:

Neil, what engines in particular are you thinking?
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Re: generation v engines

Postby axeman » 04 Jan 2016, 22:02

By generation v (4) i was indicating the 4th generation golf etc so up to around 2005ish.
However all inline vag4 have the same belousing stud patten up to around 2011. Which opens up many options. I know les is running a pd i guss that the most modern deisle in a syncro in the uk?
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Re: generation v engines

Postby bat » 04 Jan 2016, 23:53

Should have a very modern engine fitted in my van soon, more info when it happens.

Watch this space. :D

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Re: generation v engines

Postby Simon Baxter » 05 Jan 2016, 08:57

I'm not sure what I really think about this, there are some engines that fit nicely using VW parts, GTI, TDI etc, even some V6 and such but if you buy an old vehicle then it's exactly that, an old vehicle.
Personally the TDI makes sense, the GTI sort of makes sense and unteathering yourself from a WBX definatley makes sense and I can sort of see the attraction with a Subaru except that almost all the ones we see are also nursing some kind of problem be it head gaskets or dubious rattles from inside the case.
I think for me the less compromises you have to make with regards to reliability and durability the better so I could never see me fitting a really "Modern" engine.
At least with a TDI or a GTI you can more or less do it with factory parts, no bodging [well, if done by someone that knows what they are doing!], no cobbling, very durable install and don't go daft with power the drive train will cope with it. If you need parts be it in Norway, Russia, South America, pretty much anywhere, even in Wales that you're going to be able to get the right part in a few days.
For what people spend on fitting later engines I often wonder why? because they want to do what? drive a bit faster? then buy a more modern van! for the cost of fitting it all you could just go and buy a T5 that already does what you're trying to do.
Again, personally, I don't see the point in spending thousands on an engine that may only give bragging rights, a couple more mpg or get you past a bus a bit quicker when it's going to tear the weak link, the gearbox apart quicker.
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Re: generation v engines

Postby ELVIS » 05 Jan 2016, 20:08

Would i be right in saying there is a certain element of choice (or lack of) 'dictated' (in a very nice way) by the manufacturers of parts?

As has been said above Gti/Tdi etc bold in with factory bits.

20v/V6 start getting into a mix of factory and produced adapters. If the adapters/mounts aren't available then one is down to one offs and unless one has machine shop/CAD/whatever at their finger tips then it becomes an expensive exercise.

For the great unwashed is it a case of waiting until KAP/FAS etc producing a kit for later generation engine when all the Tdis/Gtis are no more?

Maybe in the next few years PDs will become more widespread and looms/instalation kits 'sensible' money.

However, i am sure Aidan/Baxter/Anyone else proper clever, will confirm/expand on the suitability of T3 boxes that *might* start getting towards their upper limits of the torque they will take.

saying that i think (ian?) has said a rebuilt engine is still new. flat 4s have been about for 70 years? Gtis for getting on for 40 in various guises. i dont think anyone on here needs to worry about availability of parts for the stuff we are using now in their lifetime.


Oh, and Happy New Year everyone :ok
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Re: generation v engines

Postby Smosh » 05 Jan 2016, 20:48

I am often torn with this... I regularly consider a Subaru conversion. But, like Simon said, if you want a more modern engine buy a more modern van. I respect those that push the limits of the existing engines try new engine combinations to create unique beasts, such as v8's, cosworths and bigger Subaru's. But I think if someone is looking for a more reliable, lower mileage engine at a substantial cost then maybe a more modern van would be more suitable.
However saying all that, it is important that people create a van that makes them happy!
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