Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by ghost123uk »

Just popped in to say:-

orangebooboobearcrew wrote:Battery is under 12 months old - Bosch S4 so wouldn't expect any issues tbh.
A brand new battery can be damaged/fooked by leaving it flat for any length of time.
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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by what2do »

orangebooboobearcrew wrote:Ok - so charged the battery up today and after a few hours, turned her over.

It was still a bit slow at first but starter seems to have plenty more power and yes she fired at the second attempt (fuel had probably drained down so happy with that!) :D

Great to hear the old girl running again and good job as the brakes were starting to seize on so not a moment too soon.

I let her run for a while and sounded good. I let her cool down then tried starting again. Again the first turn was laboured but then she fired with a boom, the starter sounding much more powerful. I tried this a couple more times and same result.

So, in summary, starter seems fine, but still slow first couple of turns. :(

So what are the next steps? I still keep coming back to tight engine in my mind. How do I test definitively?

Many thanks,

Chris

As a side note, avoid leaving a resting van with the brakes on, use a brick or just leave it in gear. I was once faced with having to reverse out of a garage with seized brakes. The rear end came up very high before an almighty clunk was heard/felt, not pleasant.
Why would the glass be anything other than half full?

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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by what2do »

CovKid wrote:By now you should have got a feel for the paint. Looks excellent actually. A couple of brain-dead individuals continue to dismiss the idea but as you're probably discovering, its possible to achieve an excellent finish and the DVD has gone all over the world including Norway, Italy and Australia. Hope you're pleased :D


These brain dead individuals are probably the same ones on facebook that always spout 'once rollered with Rustoleum, you can't paint over it with anything else'. Hmmmmm, I'm pretty sure another coat of rustoleum would adhere....
Why would the glass be anything other than half full?

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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by what2do »

Seems to me that Orangebbc is itching to do a test to see if the engine is 'tight'. And why not, it's your van and doesn't take very long BUT don't overlook the very potential fire risk that this presents, yes that's correct, fire risk. I can't remember who put up a photo of their blue van with flames filling the boot because they'd removed the plugs but not isolated the ignition - personally, I'd have made that very same mistake so was very grateful to read/learn from the mistakes of others.

As you were, back to starting issues...
Why would the glass be anything other than half full?

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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by keith »

what2d wrote:
CovKid wrote:By now you should have got a feel for the paint. Looks excellent actually. A couple of brain-dead individuals continue to dismiss the idea but as you're probably discovering, its possible to achieve an excellent finish and the DVD has gone all over the world including Norway, Italy and Australia. Hope you're pleased :D


These brain dead individuals are probably the same ones on facebook that always spout 'once rollered with Rustoleum, you can't paint over it with anything else'. Hmmmmm, I'm pretty sure another coat of rustoleum would adhere....

brain dead ....starter dead.....its a loose connection. :wink:
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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by orangebooboobearcrew »

Thanks for all the suggestions and amusing comments :)

I will try the earth test suggested next to try and rule that out before setting the van on fire testing the tight engine theory :rofl - but thanks for the heads up on that!!

I do try and move the van regularly so don't get seized brakes or flats spots on the tyres but again ta for the shout...

On an aside, I removed the slider and the tailgate last weekend and have brought them back home to the garage for further flatting before next coat of rollered Rustoleum so that's the rest of my evenings this week taken care of... :roll:

Will keep ya posted...

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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by orangebooboobearcrew »

hello again gang!!

Finally managed to get up the unit yesterday - first time for a few weeks as I was VW'd out plus our lovely little 5 month old baby tiring us out :cry:

So I tested between battery positive and battery negative - showing 12.04v.
I then checked battery positive to negative lead which runs to battery deadman switch at the switch end. Still 12.04v.
I then checked battery positive to seat belt mount bolt (body earth) - again 12.04v.
I then tried starting the ol' gal. Again really slow to turn over but did fire eventually then running lovely. Did all the above tests again and getting 13.85v at all points.

So does that mean we can rule out battery issues, alternator is working ok (not related to starting issue obviously) and that earth circuit is ok? Do I need to test earth return from actual starter body to battery negative (I.e with some jump leads) - remember,I have already changed the gearbox nose earth strap for a brand new spanker.

What are you learned thoughts on next steps / tests?

Many thanks again,

Chris

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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by ghost123uk »

orangebooboobearcrew wrote:So I tested between battery positive and battery negative - showing 12.04v.
In the real world, that 12.04 indicates a battery that is nearly flat.

orangebooboobearcrew wrote:I then tried starting the ol' gal. Again really slow to turn over but did fire eventually
Which is what one would expect with a nearly flat battery.


orangebooboobearcrew wrote:Did all the above tests again and getting 13.85v at all points.
That is good, the alternator is working.

orangebooboobearcrew wrote:So does that mean we can rule out battery issues
No ;)

Next test is to charge the battery (disconnected from the van) using a normal home charger (a "smart" multi stage one if you have it). Do it overnight. Then disconnect the charger. Wait an hour and then measure the battery voltage, it should be around 12.8 Volts. Now leave it a day (or 2) and measure again. If it has dropped below 12.6 Volts, it is in need of replacement.

Another test is to borrow a known good battery off another vehicle (one that is in regular use) and just try that on the van. If it starts with more vigour, again that indicates your battery is duff. Be careful with the +ve and -ve if using another battery, they are not always in the same position. Check 3 times before actually putting the cables on. Get it the wrong way round and things will burn out !
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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by Wychall »

Quick tests I would do are to jump the battery from another vehicle, which will show what a fully charged battery could do for you. Leave the mule vehicle running to give extra voltage.

Another test would be to use a jumper lead (heavy duty) from battery negative to engine block. That would indicate if there was a poor earth connection anywhere.

Incidentally, the earlier comment about a blue van on fire, well, I was that idiot!

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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by ghost123uk »

Agreed with Brian above, but with the proviso that the jump leads are good quality ones, as he says "heavy duty" ;) = Cheap jump leads are carp.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aside = Jeez Brian, is that documented anywhere else on here? (don't want to go into detail here as it would be a thread hi-jack ;))
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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by Wychall »

ghost123uk wrote:
Aside = Jeez Brian, is that documented anywhere else on here? (don't want to go into detail here as it would be a thread hi-jack ;))

I had posted in a thread re switching from lpg to petrol occasionally but can't find the thread now. In short, KJet system gummed up, continually injecting petrol, flooded engine, took out spark plugs and spun engine, didn't disconnect ignition so it ignited! Brown trousers and red face but luckily only a flash and a few burning pools, easily doused. Lesson now learned.
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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by orangebooboobearcrew »

Great stuff - thanks both. That all makes perfect sense. Will give it a go at the weekend...

I'm not in any rush to set my van on fire tbh lol :rofl (sorry, it's not funny really). :shock:

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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by orangebooboobearcrew »

As promised - another update.

I took battery off and charged up over a couple of days (I forgot to turn charger off but it has built in cut off so it was ok).

Checked voltage a couple of hours later and it was 14.1v.

I then checked it each day for 4 days - it measured 13.1v on all of them. :ok

I tried battery back in the van this weekend and it turned over really quickly and powerfully before firing into life. :D

So I am hoping that is it sorted for now. I will of course be back if not. :lol: Thanks for everyone's help and input - couldn't of done it without ya team 80 90.

I'm off to rebuild the starter on the '71 bug now which seems to have developed exactly the same problem spookily...

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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by CovKid »

I do encourage owners to have a go at repairing their starter motors as it can save a fortune and the fault is usually a minor one. They can seem daunting but once you understand how they work its much easier to locate the problem and in parts alone needn't cost much to put right. At some point I'll add a complete alternator strip down to the WIKI as they cost even more to replace, and again can be rebuilt at reasonable cost.
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Re: Starter motor rebuild - refitting brushes

Post by orangebooboobearcrew »

Covkid, it is thanks to you and others who have posted here that I and many others now have the confidence to try and tackle these issues by ourselves rather than waste loads of money just swapping parts with sub standard replacement parts. So take the credit where it is due and thank you all :ok

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