I've been reading this thread with interest as I too find the original lights a bit dim.
Now the lights you are trying to find an easy way to attach with various modifications to the bezel or DIY brackets are identical to those fitted to many cars from the 50s, 60s, 70s etc.
My old Rover has them and I recently upgraded to Lucas H4 replacements using a compete kit of "Lucas" parts including the headlight holder and bowl. I took a look at the headlight holder and noticed that it has a rim all the way around it. Would this solve the problem of having to add new tabs to the Land Rover bezel?
That is the item that I posted about much earlier (part no. 554872 - 2 needed) - I said that the tabs on the bezel don't line up to our mountings but I didn't want to try to swap the vw plate out for the Lucas one as it is better in the long run to keep to standard vw fittings not least for any future owner not knowing which parts to source.
Oldiebut goodie wrote:These are the correct bezels and backplate for these units - they will not fit on ours without adapting them. The 3 tabs that would hold the bezel on are in different positions to the VW fitment so the Lucas backplate would need to be used. I haven't bothered to work out what is needed to change them over yet.
They are Lucas part No. 554872 - I picked up a pair of new ones dirt cheap. If anyone wants to play with some they were used on Minis, MGs and Jaguars amongst others.
Hence why I stuck with your concept of clips Oldie. Less messing. I'l agree its not the most complex solution but it does work and doesn't interfere with original Hella fixings, or adjusters. It'd be nice to have a bezel but given the price of the light units it doesn't make a great deal of sense to throw even more money at it just at fixing them in - well, not if three Z-clips will do the job regardless of whether unit has metal or plastic lugs. As my Mother always says - "No point in over-egging the pudding". Keep things simple.
Personally I think the time/money is better spent elsewhere. I'm not condemning the ideas here, they're all really good but it does seem a lot of effort for relatively little gain and I've completed two other projects since fitting those.
Roller paint your camper at home: http://roller.epizy.com/55554/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for MP4 download.
A lot of people can make clips so I see no harm in continuing the search for a solution that is cheaper than £90 for two new poor quality lights but does not involve making bits.
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top itchylinks
Yep - fit and forget, it was so easy that way, only a few minutes to fit both lamps and no messing with the original fitment. I did toy with silver soldering new tabs onto the chrome bezel but then would have to contend with the chance of discolouring the chrome, too much faffing around for a minor cosmetic improvement.
I have always assumed you need a later style H4 headlight to fit H4 lamps but it seems I was wrong.
****note I found out later this will fail an MOT******
is this common knowledge you can fit H4's straight into the older style headlamps?
Next question, I assume the shield inside the headlamp is redundant with newer H4 style lamps with the blackened end on them?, my newer hadlight bought a couple of hears ago does not have this, so any reason why I can't just remove it by cutting it out? I assume it will be better if I do?
itchyfeet wrote:
is this common knowledge you can fit H4's straight into the older style headlamps?
Well it was common to me at least. I bought some Nightbreakers for my early non-H4 lamps and they seemed to fit ok so I thought nothing of it.
itchyfeet wrote:Next question, I assume the shield inside the headlamp is redundant with newer H4 style lamps with the blackened end on them?, my newer hadlight bought a couple of hears ago does not have this, so any reason why I can't just remove it by cutting it out? I assume it will be better if I do?
I guess you probably can, yes. My new lamps don't have the shield, yet the beam pattern looks quite similar to the old lamps - there's no hotspot in the middle caused by not having the shield. I doubt that removing it will make much difference, given that the end of the H4 bulbs is black anyway. Is it maybe a heat shield as well as a light shield?
"I'm a man of means, by no means....King of the Road!"
Oldiebut goodie wrote:Is the beam pattern/focus different on the older ones? I don't know but maybe that is the reason they can't be used? Someone must know.
Lamp burner position relative to reflector is critical but these look the same, if the burner is in the same position it will perform the same
Also very little difference in old type and H4 newer type front lenses
only thing I can see is there is no rotation fixing but it's not rocket science to get it in the right way up!
sorry I know this isn't about budget headlights but if people are thinking of fitting budget lights to get h4 it's relevant.
As long as the base of the bulb is the same, you just swap tungsten for halogen and no you don't need the sheild. Most of the heat from halogens emenates from the sides rather than the tip anyway, which is blackened as you say. They get hot whatever you do. Been changing bulbs like that for 25 years.
Modern headlights with dedicated reflectors definately give a crisper and brighter beam than reflectors and shaped glass - albeit at the expense of longevity. I think you'd be hard pushed to get the manufacture of old style lights accurate enough to get the focus spot on anyway. They're more a guesstimate.
Would agree on exploring ways to improve fitment of lucas-style as long as it doesn't actually drift into it being uneconomic or damage whats there, which from experience, doesn't take much when you're working on old or classic vehicles. Obsession can easily overtake common sense. I remind myself that VW's reputation for reliability was due mostly to its simple approach. The more involved the solution and the more you add/fit, the more there is to go wrong. Some changes can actually make for safer driving but equally there is no shortage of outlets happy to take your money for things that end up stuck in drawers.
I think Oldie and I are old-school (so is Hakuna Matata) and we tend scratch our heads and look for the simplest solution using things to hand, that are easy to replicate rather than hit the 'buy' button. Hakuna's dash shelf is brilliant - you'll all want one of those!
Roller paint your camper at home: http://roller.epizy.com/55554/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for MP4 download.
All this electrics is going way over my head, not understanding lots is making it hard to follow. If anone is borad it would be great if a simple post with options could be put up after this?
CovKid wrote:.... Hakuna's dash shelf is brilliant - you'll all want one of those!
is this his? ---->
1984 Voltswagen 25 Pop-Top (No idea what type!?) 1.9 W/C Petrol based in Guernsey, C.I.
Nothing wrong with simplicity, I am a great fan but you have to remember not everybody has the skills to make bits and may not wan't to have home made ugly bits on their van.
I could make plant pots from old milk cartons and yoghurt pots but I choose to buy them because they are aesthetically better and don't cost a fortune.
Happy to start a new thread if you like but I'm sure most people would rather see it all in one place
Last edited by itchyfeet on 30 Nov 2014, 19:38, edited 2 times in total.
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top itchylinks
Plant pots? plant pots? How dare you Itchy. No, these fit on the heater cowling and almost look like standard VW issue. Trying to find a pic and will happlily start thread....
Roller paint your camper at home: http://roller.epizy.com/55554/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for MP4 download.
