How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Thin bits of metal and bright blue light. Including glass & trim.

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sweetaswesty
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How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by sweetaswesty »

I decided to bite the bullet and tackle the rusty guttering and potentially rusty roof on our Westfalia California hightop.
We've cleaned the sealant out of the gutters on top and around the lip of the hightop and removed the furniture and fittings inside and had a good look around and it's kind of 50/50 whether to go the further step of lifting the roof.
So the question now is how to separate the fibreglass hightop from the metal roof it's attached to now the gutter sealant has been removed.
I've read the long thread on The Samba and someone suggested trying to drag a piano wire between the fibreglass and the metal, but the OP on the thread used a pry bar and a bottle jack from the inside to physically separate them.
Both methods seem liable to damage the fibreglass roof. Anyone have any better ideas or know the best way of doing this with no or minimal damage to the roof?
1991 Westfalia California Hightop1.9tdi

Plasticman
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Re: How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by Plasticman »

i have a thread but the pickies are no more (pee bucket) but I did make a few different cutting blades out of large bandsaw blade and used these like flexible chisels, the lip above the screen you have to open up and cut the sealant , also the interior looks like they (vw) just poked the adhesive gun in there and spread it All Over.... i can send you a link to them if you want
mm

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Re: How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by sweetaswesty »

Thanks - that would be really excellent. Do I need to send a PM?
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Re: How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by ZsZ »

If you bent the inner lip out then pull a windshield cutter wire around. Then you can lift the roof.
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AngeloEvs
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Re: How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by AngeloEvs »

This may be a dumb question, but would it not be possible to assess the roof by first removing the headlining?

I would have thought any serious corrosion would be evident from inside the van and s it not possible to see the roof surface by removing the high top trim or panels first?
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kervinmervin
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Re: How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by kervinmervin »

I took off the lining and saw the extensive damage, think I went with guitar string method somebody inside and somebody outside cutting. There wasnt much of a lip left holding mine, apart from above windscreen - i've got loads of pics of the job, I think if you send PM.

K
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Re: How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by sweetaswesty »

Yes, I've taken all the panels out of the roof on the inside and the fibreglass insulation and mostly where the fibreglass roof meets the tin roof inside things look quite OK, apart from a small section of rot in the front rh corner. I don't think (hope) it's not holed but it's my fingers that are telling me what's going on not my eyes.
The gutters on the rh side are not too bad and look like cleaning out, rust treating and then resealing would be enough, but on the lh side the gutters are not so good with rust underneath and also pinholing in a couple of places on the side.
That's why I think it's 50/50 whether to take the roof off at all. It's such a big job. On the other hand we've already done a lot of it, it's the only way to actually repair rather than just treat the rust damage I guess. And if we do it then it will be a rare hightop Westfalia with a totally solid roof?
The guitar string, piano wire, windshield cutter method sounds promising.
Thanks for the help, any more advice would be incredibly gratefully received.
1991 Westfalia California Hightop1.9tdi

kervinmervin
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Re: How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by kervinmervin »

This was mine, still sends a chill down my spine! I must have loads of the removal - I'll have a look this evening.
IMG_1438small.jpg
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IMG_1441small.jpg
IMG_1441small.jpg (116.01 KiB) Viewed 6267 times
1984 Westfalia 1.9dg

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Re: How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by ZsZ »

Here about in the middle of the page there are some photos and drawings how factory hightop is designed and what to expect:
http://van360.eu/karosserie/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by kervinmervin »

ZsZ wrote:Here about in the middle of the page there are some photos and drawings how factory hightop is designed and what to expect:
http://van360.eu/karosserie/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thats a nice job, better than my effort! wish I'd seen that 8 years ago!
1984 Westfalia 1.9dg

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Re: How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by sweetaswesty »

Thanks for all the incredibly helpful responses.
Just a few more questions.
The lip on the fibreglass hightop that drops into the gutter is encased in a metal sheaf that generally seems to get chiselled off or bent away in the process of removing the roof.
1. Is there a way of getting the roof off without sacrificing this folded over metal strip?
I can see that freeing the fibre glass lip would mean it's now free to lift off and with the roof off it's going to be easier to clear out the remains of the strip and the rest of the sealant from the gutter.
2. When you put the roof back on is it necessary to replace this metal sheaf or is it OK just to seal the fibreglass lip into the gutter?
3. Then also, with the gutter above the windscreen which is folded right over the lip of the fibreglass roof, I'm thinking of cutting through the metal from the top at the point where it ought to just free up the lip. That way the gutter will not get too mangled and then when we put the roof back we'll treat it like an ordinary gutter with sealant below and above the lip. Does that sound like it would work OK?
1991 Westfalia California Hightop1.9tdi

kervinmervin
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Re: How to remove Westfalia hightop?

Post by kervinmervin »

I'm sure there are more pro approaches than mine, but the metal strip on mine was mostly rusted away so no it came off anyway. I welded on a new strip before fitting, as it sits under the fibre glass lip and folds over the top of it. I imagine it'd probably be alright without though as from what I've seen in other posts the other conversions dont have this.

I bent up the lip above the windscreen to free the roof and whilst it was a bit mangled it retained the edge bend radius, I folded back over when fitted and refilled over the more crinkled bit - if that makes sense. That bit looked ok.
1984 Westfalia 1.9dg

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To remove Westfalia Hightop or not to remove?

Post by sweetaswesty »

I began another thread on how to do this job and had some really helpful replies. As might be expected as I dismantled the interior other jobs appeared.
But now I'm at the point of no return and the next thing I do will mean the roof is definitely coming off unless I decide not to do it.
Which I'm thinking about because the damage to the tin roof and gutters is just not as bad as I thought it was likely to be from the other pics I've seen of a Westy hightop with the roof off.
So I could really do with some advice as I think about what to do next.
1. The worst bit is the inside of the roof at the right front corner where there's a patch of reasonably severe rust and it's also a little bit wet. I've also got damage around and at the bottom right hand corner below the windscreen which could mean water is getting into that area from that source. It's hard to see how I can fix this even though it's only a small patch without taking the roof off, maybe scraping away the surface rust and sealer and treating with Vactan, epoxy filler, and resealing?
Roof - interior rhs
Roof - interior rhs
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2. Whatever is happening there is happening on the left front corner also, just not so much. On the outside of the roof at these two points things look reasonably OK. Everywhere else on the inside things look pretty much OK, and dry.
3. The outside edge of the gutter on the right hand side is rusted through in just two places. This seems to be from water seeping behind the old sealant in the gutters and doing its rusty thing. I don't think it would make sense to take the roof off just to fix this. The photo is of the worst example, the other patch is just pinholed.
Gutter damage
Gutter damage
condgutter 2.jpg (72.53 KiB) Viewed 6182 times
4. There is surface rust in a few places underneath the gutters from the same cause. Like seam rust it's come through from the other side, but it's not at the stage where I would have to lift the roof just to fix this as now I have the sealant out of the gutters I can treat both sides.
5. Finally, at the very back on the inside roof panel is actually the worst bit of rust. This is a bit of a mystery because the attachment of the roof above this panel seems like it's OK, rust free and dry. And also, it makes no difference whether the roof is on or off for fixing this panel. I'll have to drill out the spot welds and rivets, repair it and then refit it because there are no replacement panels available. But I don't know where the water is coming from that has rusted out this panel. So maybe despite appearances water is actually breaking through from above here and this is actually a reason for lifting the roof.
Rear panel damage
Rear panel damage
condrearpanel.jpg (73.79 KiB) Viewed 6182 times
Any advice will be gratefully received. If the roof is coming off it's coming off in the next few days. I'm up for it but I don't want to do it unless I really have to.
Thanks!
John
1991 Westfalia California Hightop1.9tdi

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Re: To remove Westfalia Hightop or not to remove?

Post by AngeloEvs »

I would do a thorough investigation into repairing using a variety of methods, roof in situ based on the current level of corrosion. Once satisfied that I could treat, repair and prevent further corrosion I would go ahead.
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Re: To remove Westfalia Hightop or not to remove?

Post by kervinmervin »

The pop rivets shown on your picture are actually the fixings for the roof. I had a really annoying leak that took me years to find, it would only occur when raining - hose pipes couldn’t make it leak, it was a nightmare. I finally worked it out last year. There's a bit of folded metal which sits in the gutter and this is the bit thats pop riveted (as per your picture), this goes up inside the back of the fibre glass roof and is I think bonded to the inside of the fibre glass, water seemed to suck up through a really small gap between this metal and the roof and tracked down to the corners and formed an annoying drip (which actually leaked loads), but I think also causing a bit of rust where yours is to. It was pretty satisfying to finally work out the cause, but it does strangely open up every so often, I guess I need to redo properly at some point.

The gutter rust doesn’t look to bad to me, but its difficult to advise really, i guess if you’ve redone the gutters, rust proofed and cleaned up where possible and made sure the roof is now correctly sealed it will keep you dry until you want to go for the job properly. I had no experience really and it took me quite a few weekends to take off and refit. Its a pain but its not that bad, also helpful if you can get it under cover. After trying to do mine on the drive I gave up and drove 15miles with the roof off to a friends farm, nice as a soft top but funny looks!

I guess fundamentally you need to decide if you want it off the road or you want to go off and camp and wait until its really necessary or can you tie in with other body work.

K
1984 Westfalia 1.9dg

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