Rear crossmember, sill + trailing arm mount

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blakeys80
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Rear crossmember, sill + trailing arm mount

Post by blakeys80 »

Hi all, I am hoping that I might get a little heads up from someone with more bodywork knowledge than myself. Here go's, apologies for no photos as I'm working away from home at the moment so can't see the van in the flesh o to speak.
Our camper has been in the garage for 2 weeks now having the LHS bodywork seen to, with the centre panel (sill to window), inner + outer sills plus flooring etc, basically the whole side was well rotten!
A few days ago after cutting away near the rear trailing arm, the guy uncovered more rot, and noticed that the mounting bracket was in a bad way.
From what can gather from the two phone calls we've had, he's said that there's nothing there to weld to and that the van should be scrapped, he also mentioned welds across the bottom of the rear cross member being bad, and because of that a potential gearbox problem too.
I do realise there's little to go on without seeing it myself and putting some photos up, but he is a decent VW guy, I've seen some of his work on bays,bugs etc so can't see him saying it on a whim. I can believe the rot is bad, but wouldn't of thought it's in fixable, but then again I'm not a welder so have different judgement.
As you can imagine I'm a fair bit fed up tonight, and hoping that it's something that can be saved as I really don't want to scrap it at all, even if he can't do what's required and I have to do some bits myself or take it elsewhere.
By the way,if the rear cross member does require replacement, what's I volved there, and has anyone else done this?

Cheers for reading guys

1981 LHD 2.0l CU with Twin Solex setup.

boatbuilder
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Re: Rear crossmember, sill + trailing arm mount

Post by boatbuilder »

Rare enough for the entire crossmember to be beyond repair I would have thought.

"Theres nothing to weld to" - sounds like a lame excuse if you ask me. Maybe he doesn't see any value in T25s if hes a bug/bay/split man...
These vans aren't like bays and splits that just rust everywhere. The structural bits are usually in pretty good condition underneath except maybe the mounting brackets for the trailing arms, which can be replaced.
Can't understand any potential gearbox problem that could be caused by rust unless the rear crossmember is in fact completely rusted, which is where the front of the gearbox is mounted on.
1984 1.9D (AEF Code) T25 tintop

blakeys80
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Re: Rear crossmember, sill + trailing arm mount

Post by blakeys80 »

Cheers for the advice boatbuilder, like you I'd of thought that unless the crossmember is completely gone, then it should all be fixable. But it could be that it is, and this is his issue I suppose.
We agreed before he started the work that I would pay him in blocks of a days welding at a time, but he does other more modern cars too, so if the Jobs getting bigger and more involved than he'd like, this could be a contributing factor aswell I suppose.
I recall seeing some small patches welded on the bottom of the crossmember, but they looked ok for the last MOT, which just had an advisory for 'general underbody corrosion' and has two small patches on inner wheel arches to pass it hadn't been overly cared for by the PO.

If it is the crossmember that's had it, would it be gearbox out, remove rear trailing arms for starters?

1981 LHD 2.0l CU with Twin Solex setup.

multisi
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Re: Rear crossmember, sill + trailing arm mount

Post by multisi »

The rear cross member is still available , early Aircooled and later style aswell, Aircooled being the most expensive. Have you got a price for all the work involved to fix every bit of rust on the van. The price can be so high sometimes it would make better sense to start thinking about buying a rust free import if its lhd.
1992 red lle 2.2 subaru 1990 rhd caravelle 2.2 subaru 1986 california import vanagon

blakeys80
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Re: Rear crossmember, sill + trailing arm mount

Post by blakeys80 »

I did see that the crossmember is available, although I could only see one type, would you know where to get an early one from?
When the garage started the body work, which is mainly the left side,the front panel join above bumper & a few small other areas, we agreed on a price which seemed reasonable for the work involved at that point, and not too cheap to be true. It won't solve all the rust issues, but cure the major ones to leave me the easier parts to work with.
The trouble is it's a kind of no man's land now, where I'd pay for work already done, but end up with nothing, or spend more and try and fix the issue in hand. I've laid out around £500 in panels too so don't want to waste that. Plus I like the van and it's been mechanically ok to use so far.

For the amount I bought it for, added to the current work, I'd still struggle to find one I like and in better condition without needing work, but I suppose that's sometimes the difficulty in getting attached to these things.
I just find it mad that he's been working on it for 2 weeks and only now tells me it's worth scrap.
I'm a great optimist, so hopefully it can be saved fingers crossed.
Does anyone know of any pictures of rot around the rear crossmember area, so I've got something to compare mine to?
Cheers

1981 LHD 2.0l CU with Twin Solex setup.

multisi
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Re: Rear crossmember, sill + trailing arm mount

Post by multisi »

Because the guy working on it has no experience with these vans means he doesnt know the areas where the serious rust issues are going to be, he is finding them as he works on your van. You really need to get some real quotes for the work involved if that cross member does need replacing. Like i said before , if its going to run into big numbers a dry states import would be money well spent, it doesnt have to be a runner, you could have it painted up and use your running gear etc and build a van which would be worth a lot of money if you decided to sell it in the future. The crossmembers are from vw heritage classic section 251803179 for the early one .
1992 red lle 2.2 subaru 1990 rhd caravelle 2.2 subaru 1986 california import vanagon

boatbuilder
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Re: Rear crossmember, sill + trailing arm mount

Post by boatbuilder »

There's a Facebook group called vw t3 restoration. Someone just tonight posted lots of photos of doing a crossmember...

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1984 1.9D (AEF Code) T25 tintop

blakeys80
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Re: Rear crossmember, sill + trailing arm mount

Post by blakeys80 »

Thanks for the helpful info, I went to see the van last night and the rear crossmember is kaput. The side is cut off the van as I expected, and the front panel too. We had a good chat about options of moving forward, I think the rear crossmember in this van would be a bit pointless, as even if we did, we'd be unsure of the structural strength of everything else it welds back on to, and other parts of the van would still require lots of work. When I asked the mech what I owed him this far, to his credit he said don't worry about it, it was only a couple of hours grinding, and I can see you're gutted.
On a plus note, I took you're advice BB and have been asking around some of the VW people round here if they know of anyone with any decent shells or vans going.
Turns out that there's a guy not too far from where my van is who has an engineless (but with 5spd gearbox) rolling shell which he was converting but has been dry stored for 2 years. All major bodyworks is good, new rear suspension, and it's been primerd ready for paint and just needs glass.
He was looking for around 1K for it a few months back but still has it.
I think both financially and from an engineering point of view, this makes more sense if I can get hold of it, having spoken to the place that's doing my current van, he said the engine + GB from mine could be swapped over no bother, and at a lot less cost than the remedial work and unknown factors involved with the current issues.

On a side issue, has anyone found a decent picture hosting site, as I'd like to add some photos to this thread?

Cheers

1981 LHD 2.0l CU with Twin Solex setup.

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