No brakes!!!

[triumph]

So I hadn’t driven the van for 5 days because the battery wasn’t starting the engine, so after a full charge today, started perfectly, and off to work I went. Thirty seconds later, slight brown trouser moment as I approach a car in front of me and the brake pedal goes straight to the floor with no resistance, and not a lot in the braking department. There is a slight bleh of braking power, I had to combine with the handbrake to crawl back home. Pumping the pedal made sod all difference.

How do I approach this? I assume it suggests there is a big hole somewhere in the braking system? How do I find this, and what do i do?

Many thanks!


Alex

[937carrera]

Check the brake fluid level first.

Then start looking for leaks / wetness, either from the front calipers or the rear brake cylinders.

After that you are looking for a brake pipe breakage or master cylinder failure.

Post back what you find

[Mocki]

Check the brake fluid level first.

Then start looking for leaks / wetness, either from the front calipers or the rear brake cylinders.

After that you are looking for a brake pipe breakage or master cylinder failure.

Post back what you find

unless its a auto, you would loose the clutch long before the brakes, as they share the res, and the clutch takes from the top half , but if its low, it'll be a wheel cylinder or a pipe ( shoudnt be a pipe unless your mot man is roy orbison)

[triumph]

Okay so there is no fluid in the reservoir that I can see.

I don’t understand how the clutch has gone without me noticing??! What should I have noticed?

I cannot see any obvious wetness externally, but I have moved the van since it apparently emptied itself. Is this a wheel and drum off job to start with?

Also, so I can get some ordered, is there any particular fluid I need?

Cheers!

[937carrera]

Right, so you have a leak.

The design of the brake reservoir is such that if you get a clutch leak, you don't lose all the brake fluid and brakes as well as clutch. The clutch will continue to work with the fluid that is already between the clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder.

Right, so you have a leak. You need to get some DOT 4 brake fluid. You can either remove each of the wheels in turn to look for wetness from a leaking seal, but the rear drums can be a bit of a challenge.

Easiest and dirtiest is to refill the reservoir and press the brake pedal a few times. Then look on the inside edge of the tyres for wetness, or for a puddle where a brake pipe has split. Have a container ready to catch any residue

[itchyfeet]

How do I approach this? I assume it suggests there is a big hole somewhere in the braking system? How do I find this, and what do i do?

Dare I say If you have to ask then maybe a garage is safer?

Brakes are pretty important and it sounds like you don't have any experience?

[triumph]

Thank you folks for the advice, I shall get onto it at the weekend.
I’ve had my ‘60 but for the past 5 years, have done lots mechanically with it (building engine etc), and adjusting the brake drums/reassembling these, but I haven’t yet actually had an issue with the braking system that has required me to further my skills here until now!

So effectively find the leak, is there a common area? And then I assume just replace the offending part, refill, bleed and away?

[937carrera]

Given the sudden failure my money is on a rear slave cylinder,but go through the proper diagnosis.

Repair should be as you describe

[Porkscratching]

Had the exact same problem last weekend. The only thing I would add is that I always replace brake components on both sides. Two well branded wheel cylinders should come in at less than £40. Although the nearly new shoes were sodden they clean up like new for reuse. You can take the opportunity to blead the whole system.

Regards. Max

[937carrera]

...and if that is the problem with a piston popping out measure the drum diameter, it's quite possible that they are worn oversize and need replacing

[Cobra88]

I would never re use brake shoes that have been contaminated with brake fluid

not even if they where a day old.

Have seen many have friction material come unbonded and jam Brake drum.
Really not worth the Russian Roulette risk.

That's just me

[itchyfeet]

What he says ^^^^

I used these several years ago, nothing to report.

https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/c/ ... ?102440158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/c/ ... ?134550088" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Porkscratching]

When it comes to reusing brake shoes I don't know of an independent none dealership garage that is averse to refitting serviced shoes. If the shoes are worn or there is any sign of degradation to the bonding or the lining surface then it's a no brainer, replace with new.
Why spend an additional £40 on shoes when a quids worth of brake cleaner, 50 pence of coarse cloth and maybe a gentle warming up often does the trick.
I'm not one for cutting corners when it comes to brakes but why throw away money. On all brake services one would inspect and clean the shoes and make a judgement call as to the refitting. I for one wouldn't automatically replace with new.

Even with brakes there's room for a judgement call. Myself and many others are comfortable with "judicial reuse" of original shoes. That's my opinion, and just like you, itchyfeet and Cobra88 I'm entitled to it.

Regards.

[itchyfeet]

Moving on

My van had new brake lines before I got it and the master cylinder was shot.
I have read that the pumping of a master cylinder to bleed brakes moves the piston into ares it never normally runs in and can damage the seals. It seems this was the case with mine.

The solution is a pressure bleeding kit but don't go up to 20 PSI keep in 10-15 PSI so you don't risk the seals on the top up reservoir.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gunson-EEZIB ... 0759082496" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you buy one you need to fill the bottle very very slowly and gently and an angle , if you pour brake fluid quickly it's full of air bubbles ( same if you shake or drop a bottle of brake fluid) then these bubbles take hours to come out or they end up in your brake system causing spongy brakes.

[937carrera]

Any luck in finding the problem ?