1.9-2.2 change
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1.9-2.2 change
So now thinking keeping my 1.9dg bottom end and putting on a 2.1 top rebored to 2.2 top end. So just getting a quote together now for works. Not doing it my self, but then thinking my 5 speed box to give a higher 5th gear for cruising. Ie changing gearing in box to give a better cruising mpg to hopefully see 40-50mpg @ 60miles ish. Anyone done this? If I can double mileage I can save about 1k/year. Will also do lpg when done to save more. Therefore all paid off in 5 years. Am I barking up the wrong tree? Thanks and thoughts. Also thinking it keeps it original (ish)
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- ajsimmo
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Re: 1.9-2.2 change
Er, ...what? Reread this several times and still not sure what it all means.
2.1 is achieved by longer stroke and shorter pistons than 1.9. if you just do the top end on the original crank, you'll still have a 1.9, but with ultra low compression. And the wrong valve timing.
Your mpg figures are way out and implausible. Are you mixing up pre and post LPG conversion equivalents?
The 2.2 is pretty rubbish, even with the right crank and camshaft. I wouldn't bother. It's lower compression than the DJ, and the cylinder walls are thinner making them prone to distortion and seal failure. I've seen a couple that blew combustion gases into the coolant.
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2.1 is achieved by longer stroke and shorter pistons than 1.9. if you just do the top end on the original crank, you'll still have a 1.9, but with ultra low compression. And the wrong valve timing.
Your mpg figures are way out and implausible. Are you mixing up pre and post LPG conversion equivalents?
The 2.2 is pretty rubbish, even with the right crank and camshaft. I wouldn't bother. It's lower compression than the DJ, and the cylinder walls are thinner making them prone to distortion and seal failure. I've seen a couple that blew combustion gases into the coolant.
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Re: 1.9-2.2 change
As I said,luckily I’m not doing the work. What if I kept it to a 2.1 and then changed gearing? This is a one time job when I do it. Sorry I do make things over complicated. I here that the 5th gear in a 5 speed box is the same as the 4th gear in a 4 speed?
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- itchyfeet
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Re: 1.9-2.2 change
unless you go LPG nothing will make a difference to your petrol MPG all petrol vans are pretty bad at 20-25mpg
- T25Convert
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Re: 1.9-2.2 change
Right, what is it you want here?
MPG wise the 2.0l TSI engined T6 has official mph figures of 31mpg. That's with lean burn technology, full engine management and turbo, in a van designed to be slightly more aero dynamic. Not in a tired wbx with a worn bottom end in a brick.
To achieve the MPG you aspire to you need either a diesel (which will get you closer) or LPG (which gives you worse mpg but is half the cost so you get the feeling of double the mileage). Neither of these will increase speed.
If it is speed you want, bigger displacement is the answer, but your mpg will suffer.
Also, if you are looking to only do this once, you'll want to split the case and change the bearings, especially if you increase power.
If you want it standard just fit the 2.1 for the best original engine on offer.
The internet is full of crap advice that you can build some high torque monster that gives you all the grunt and high mpg but unfortunately these don't match real world reality. To move the van at a given speed takes a given amount of energy, which only comes from the fuel. Changing engine size and gearing only changes the efficiency, so you burn slightly more or less fuel for the same energy output at the wheels. A bigger engine gives you a wider band of higher power efficiency but there are serious limits on what can be achieved.
MPG wise the 2.0l TSI engined T6 has official mph figures of 31mpg. That's with lean burn technology, full engine management and turbo, in a van designed to be slightly more aero dynamic. Not in a tired wbx with a worn bottom end in a brick.
To achieve the MPG you aspire to you need either a diesel (which will get you closer) or LPG (which gives you worse mpg but is half the cost so you get the feeling of double the mileage). Neither of these will increase speed.
If it is speed you want, bigger displacement is the answer, but your mpg will suffer.
Also, if you are looking to only do this once, you'll want to split the case and change the bearings, especially if you increase power.
If you want it standard just fit the 2.1 for the best original engine on offer.
The internet is full of crap advice that you can build some high torque monster that gives you all the grunt and high mpg but unfortunately these don't match real world reality. To move the van at a given speed takes a given amount of energy, which only comes from the fuel. Changing engine size and gearing only changes the efficiency, so you burn slightly more or less fuel for the same energy output at the wheels. A bigger engine gives you a wider band of higher power efficiency but there are serious limits on what can be achieved.
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George Second - 1.9DG '89 Caravelle
George Second - 1.9DG '89 Caravelle
- 937carrera
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Re: 1.9-2.2 change
or more succinctly...
well, current levels for combustion energy efficiency anyway
Ye' cannae change the laws of physics
well, current levels for combustion energy efficiency anyway
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine
- T25Convert
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Re: 1.9-2.2 change
937carrera wrote:or more succinctly...
Ye' cannae change the laws of physics
well, current levels for combustion energy efficiency anyway
Thanks, that's what I was trying to say!!
RIP - George - 1.9DG '85 AutoSleeper Trident - rusted away
George Second - 1.9DG '89 Caravelle
George Second - 1.9DG '89 Caravelle
1.9-2.2 change
That’s what I wanted to hear. What I knew deep down but thought someone had come up with an answer of bigger mpg. Low 30s on a t6? Really. What’s the benefit then?
So my other question was changing the gearing. 5th gear mainly. Are the 2.1 gear box different to the 1.9?
Is lpg a dying thing? Don’t want to waste my money converting it but equally more important, i don’t want to loose my spare wheel or space inside.
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So my other question was changing the gearing. 5th gear mainly. Are the 2.1 gear box different to the 1.9?
Is lpg a dying thing? Don’t want to waste my money converting it but equally more important, i don’t want to loose my spare wheel or space inside.
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- T25Convert
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Re: 1.9-2.2 change
Da dan wrote: Low 30s on a t6? Really. What’s the benefit then?
No one has the petrol model though, they all go for the TDI which can get 50+ mpg. Other benefits include higher cruising speeds, air bags, higher top speed, cruise control, air con, power steering etc. Garages understand them and their OBD sockets. Not for me, but you can see why people get them.
Da dan wrote:So my other question was changing the gearing. 5th gear mainly. Are the 2.1 gear box different to the 1.9?
My understanding is broadly no, they just have an extra gear in the mix, but final drive is approx. the same.
Da dan wrote: Is lpg a dying thing? Don’t want to waste my money converting it but equally more important, i don’t want to loose my spare wheel or space inside.
It works at present as prices are cheap. Depends if you think they will stay cheap longer term. N one knows!
RIP - George - 1.9DG '85 AutoSleeper Trident - rusted away
George Second - 1.9DG '89 Caravelle
George Second - 1.9DG '89 Caravelle
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Re: 1.9-2.2 change
For what it's worth I've been running a 2.1 in my van for years, was a 1.9dg, also had LPG for about 10 years.
Gearbox needed re-building so had Aiden do one for me with a taller 4th gear and also fitted slightly larger tyres which gave me a drop of about 500rpm at 70mph.
As mentioned earlier LPG is about half the cost of petrol and I get approx 18mpg compared to around 22mpg on petrol.
I think my van is about as economical as you're going to get with a standard WBX motor.
Obviously you lose storage space, mines under the bed, but what other option is there?
Gearbox needed re-building so had Aiden do one for me with a taller 4th gear and also fitted slightly larger tyres which gave me a drop of about 500rpm at 70mph.
As mentioned earlier LPG is about half the cost of petrol and I get approx 18mpg compared to around 22mpg on petrol.
I think my van is about as economical as you're going to get with a standard WBX motor.
Obviously you lose storage space, mines under the bed, but what other option is there?
2.1 DJ running on carb and LPG.
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Re: 1.9-2.2 change
mine is in the spare wheel well, the spare is in the van over the engine cover, pain in the a*** if I want to look at the engine as I have to move it every time, would like a carrier for the back of the van but they are way too expensive for me at the moment
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