No clutch suddenly

Big lumps of metals and spanners. Including servicing and fluids.

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CovKid
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by CovKid »

I have a feeling the puddle of brake fluid at one wheel (I'm picking up two new wheel cylinders shortly) is really whats at fault here. If the fluid level drops, the clutch is the first to fail. If after replacement wheel cylinders and a bleed of brake and clutch line doesn't restore order, I'll pull the gearbox out. Somehow, I don't think I'll need to. :D
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diabolov
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by diabolov »

Do you think the MOT fella could have damaged something poking around? funny how it gave up just after...

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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by CovKid »

Nope, but it could have been during brake test. He almost leapt on to the pedal. I think if anything, the slave and clutch pedal is the red herring. My guess is the leak from wheel cylinder (or more likely burst) caused a drop in level at master cylinder and this rendered the clutch defunct almost immediately. That would make sense. VW designed it that way so in the event of fluid loss, the clutch fails before brakes, thereby preventing you driving it any further. Which as it goes, worked.
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by diabolov »

Yes, I was thinking a brake line as you said about the puddle of fluid.

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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by CovKid »

I'll wager if I replace both rear cylinders and bleed, pressure in brake circuit will be restored and fluid will then be high enough to cover clutch circuit which I presume is fed from the very top of the fluid bottle and brake lines fed from bottom. I can't find a cutaway picture of resevoir but it would have to work that way for safety reasons. Will only need clutch fluid line bleeding after that and clutch should come back. Has to be worth trying that first before I order a clutch fork and pull the box. Will let you know what happens this evening. :wink:
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by Cecil »

The more I think about it,I must admit I am now airing towards it being something to do with release arm/fork or clutch itself.

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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by CovKid »

Instinctively I was following that route (and still might) but clearly rear cylinders have to be swapped out and in view of the way resevoir is set up, have to rule that out first. Added a litre of brake fluid to the order. Some scrubbing of the drive will also be required.
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by 937carrera »

Check the drum diameter before finalising your order - I had a piston pop out when reassembling brakes in my first weeks of ownership, that's when I found they were beyond wear limit.

I had the solid clutch pedal problem after putting the gearbox back in after changing the guide sleeve, turned out that the slave rod was misaligned and jammed. I just removed / replaced the slave cylinder, enjoying the usual fun without the captive nuts.
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by CovKid »

Yeah, worn drums make it a pain to get them off too as you have to wind back star adjusters a long way to get drums over shoes. Mine are only 18 months old so they'll be OK. I even painted them beforehand.

It was just foxing me why clutch suddenly felt weird after it had worked perfectly all the way there. I reckon I must have used the last bit of fluid in clutch line on that final press. I feel almost 99% sure that the blown wheel cylinder has had a knock on effect and although the obvious culprits like clutch slave cylinder, release fork and/or bearing would be the ones you'd chase, the cause is actually earlier in the system. Put it this way, it fits the symptoms and from a safety point of view it makes sense that the clutch will fail before brakes give up on you.

To be fair, I've never actually had that happen to me or any bus I've worked on but perhaps my woes will ultimately point someone else in the right direction in the future. Will certainly WIKI it and no doubt it'll end up on my youtube channel at some point. Interesting discussion.

If anyone has an old reservior, feel free to hacksaw it open. :D
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by Cobra88 »

That means you will be able to get away afterall :ok
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by 937carrera »

CovKid wrote:Yeah, worn drums make it a pain to get them off too as you have to wind back star adjusters a long way to get drums over shoes. Mine are only 18 months old so they'll be OK. I even painted them beforehand.

If anyone has an old reservior, feel free to hacksaw it open. :D

OK, so your drums are fine :)

Third picture here might be useful, normal arrangement would be to have clutch feed from bottom of reservoir

https://www.justkampers.com/251-611-301 ... -1992.html

Don't know why but all my JK links are coming up in partial Dutch. I'm a little partial to Wieckse Witte actually :trunk
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by CovKid »

Depends what you mean by bottom. US sites also say clutch will fail first and for that to happen, the feed would have to be slightly above brake feed. That theory holds with me too - makes sense.
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by CovKid »

See the pipe to the right? :D I'll bet thats clutch ;) See pic two on JK site.

Image

Theres a max arrow for correct level but minimum is going to be seam line. After that clutch will get starved and vanish beneath your feet - thankfully before brakes do. Quite right too. Could mean death the other way around :shock:

After all, a working clutch isn't much use as you slam into the back of the lorry in front of you because your brakes have gone :rofl

Therefore the process is as follows:

1) Level drops, brake warning light comes on (first reminder).
2) Clutch lost (final reminder).
3) No clutch and no brakes (two floppy pedals and brown pants).
4) Possibly death

"Elementary dear Watson"

Image

Most cars have two reservoirs but VW fitted a combined one to feed both circuits. The way its set up has a perfect logic to it.
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937carrera
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by 937carrera »

Yep bottom of the reservoir (the tank bit), the outlets for the brake master cylinder are lower so there is a small amount of extra fluid available compared to the clutch. Master cylinder stays full if the clutch hydraulics fail.
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Re: No clutch suddenly

Post by CovKid »

Aye. Although if you lose a ton of fluid from the brake lines..... :D
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