WBX-Unknown

[937carrera]

But before that, some links to bearing specifications from KS:

According to this the combined 3 piece thrust bearing should be 19.8+ 2.47 + 2.47 = 24.74mm assuming the thrust washers are completely flat when installed, which they won't be. Very close to BBB's 24.81mm

Main bearings - this is the three piece thrust bearing, I haven't found the one piece thrust bearing yet

https://onlineshop.ms-motorservice.com/ ... hisdir=fwd

Data copied below in case the link changes, sorry about the formatting, usual phpbb issue.

Product description
EAN 4028977084188
Repair grade STD

specifications
Qty. design 1 bearing position material 2 overall length wall thickness shaft diameter housing bore
1 HL I St/A 19.80 mm 3.003 59.971 mm 59.990 mm 66.000 mm 66.019 mm
1 HL II St/A 22.00 mm 3.011 54.971 mm 54.990 mm 61.000 mm 61.019 mm
1 HL III St/A 22.00 mm 3.003 54.971 mm 54.990 mm 61.000 mm 61.019 mm
1 HL IV A 15.00 mm 4.983 39.984 mm 40.000 mm 50.000 mm 50.016 mm

Thrust bearings

https://onlineshop.ms-motorservice.com/ ... hisdir=fwd

EAN 4028977047275

Qty. design 1 material 2 wall thickness shaft diameter housing bore
2 AS St/A 2.47 63.000 mm to 63.250 mm 73.200 mm to 73.450 mm

Con-rod bearings
https://onlineshop.ms-motorservice.com/ ... hisdir=fwd

EAN 4028977123528

Qty. design 1 material 2 overall length wall thickness shaft diameter housing bore
4 PL St/B/G 17.60 mm 1.397 54.971 mm to 54.990 mm 57.800 mm to 57.819 mm

Update - you will need to "register" at https://onlineshop.ms-motorservice.com/ ... t&app=shop to view the details, just use the displayed code, no personal details required

[itchyfeet]

Any chance of a picture that shows the early case part number AND the larger top bolt
Also a picture showing the bearing machining AND the larger top bolt.

Just for the Museum entry
Thanks


also your pics are large they take ages to load on a slow connection, any more than 1024x768 is wasted on a forum.

[937carrera]

I know my pictures are large, it's the consequence of the originals being uploaded to my photostorage as primary backup. They do get chopped down for display and the full resolution is available if people want to use it (like museum visitors). I'm not going to go through the the whole Photobucket again with any other provider.

Here's the piccies I think you wanted, I had to do 4

Right hand crankcase number



Right hand crankcase showing large bolt and single thrust bearing design



Left hand crankcase number



Left hand crankcase showing large bolt, single thrust bearing and matching "257" matching case code

[itchyfeet]

Thanks but would not convince a court

any chance of one that has the part number AND the large bolt area in the same pic ( preferably in focus )


early bearing surfaces are machined and could be machined into a late case, even the missing oil pressure switch is a machining operation.

only a pic showing part number and large bolt area 100% proves this is wothy of a museum entry.

[937carrera]

I didn't know this was going to court, I thought I was getting a prize Methinks someone doesn't believe you

It's actually quite hard taking a picture of the bottom and top of the case at the same time, standing on my head and holding a torch, but here's my best effort

Right hand side



Left hand side, number is just about legible at full resolution



No drilling, case number more legible







Back to the oil pump.

The pump looks pretty good. I was only just able to slide a 0.05mm feeler gauge under a rule to measure axial play on the driven shaft, it's less than that on the other gear.

There are signs of some minor scoring on the outside of the gears, more regular oil changes would have been better



And this is the cover plate after the briefest of cleaning. Definite signs of contact from the gears, and this was with a gasket fitted. Subject to further reading, I think I'll fit a new cover plate when rebuilding and keep the standard gasket. Thoughts ?

[bigbadbob76]

the combined 3 piece thrust bearing should be 19.8+ 2.47 + 2.47 = 24.74mm

Cheers fir that. It confirms my suspicions that mine weren't worn.
Early one piece bearings didn't have the large diameter 0.4 shim. Only late had them. I'm as confused as you. 0.38mm is a lot. A whole shims worth.
You can try my left over 0.36 shim if you like. [THUMBS UP SIGN]

[bigbadbob76]

Oil pump wise- you can get scoring on the cover with even lots of endfloat as the gears float fwd and back. Paul suggested i bolt my cover on without gaskets and see if the gears turn freely. If so, close it up without a gasket.


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[itchyfeet]

I didn't know this was going to court, I thought I was getting a prize Methinks someone doesn't believe you

There will always be doubters and these pics are the proof that there is another case tool design out there.

You have won a prize, you have created a place in WBX history


too late for BBB but....


oil gallery drilling by Paul_Barr, on Flickr


if it fails...

failed plug to oil gallery by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

[itchyfeet]

Oil pump wise- you can get scoring on the cover with even lots of endfloat as the gears float fwd and back. Paul suggested i bolt my cover on without gaskets and see if the gears turn freely. If so, close it up without a gasket.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

not my ideas recycled advice to use no gasket and sealant from the very respected Tencentlife ( Vanistan) aka Chris Corkins

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... g#p8168241" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[itchyfeet]

This is the other well known difference between early and late cases, this extra rib added to a late case.

P1060054 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

[bigbadbob76]

Not too late. [WINKING FACE] i checked it. [THUMBS UP SIGN]


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[937carrera]

That's a bit close for me to be able to identify where the extra web is, can you describe the location.

Paul, as you know I'm ambidextrous, doing air cooled as well as water cooled so having looked at your thread I went away to read up on the highly meticulous type 4 oil pump rebuild thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... c&start=19 . I think he spent almost much time doing the oil pump as some would on the full engine rebuild.

Both Ray and Tencentlife are on exactly the same page on the clearance. Having had a WBX oil pump in my hand now I can see the engineering evolution (not necessarily improvement). One thing that will strike a chord is that as the type 4 pump is an assembled component, with no cover plate, there is NO gasket on a type 4 pump assembly, any sealing failure results in oil going into the crankcase.

You're right BBB, with the design of the oil pump, the gears are free to move axially, so you can't prevent wear on the cover plate. On the other hand putting a new cover plate on is an easy way to refresh a WBX pump by eliminating the fluid slip tencentlife refers to. My only remaining thought is how thick an oil film is needed to create a "fluid bed" so that contact does not actually happen. It's a thought to which I don't have an answer.

Having read all of the above I'm pretty pleased with my oil pump, measuring with a feeler gauge tends to exaggerate the endfloat and I'm confident it is less than 0.05mm or 2 thou for those who understand imperial better.

I'm no longer intending to use a gasket.

One other general thought on oil pressures, which came from the Glyco link. In our engines with aluminium cases and steel cranks, bearing clearances increase with temperature as aluminium expands more quickly than steel. So oil pressure reduces with heat not only because the oil gets thinned, but because there is greater flow along the bearing surfaces.

Thanks for the reminder to check the plugged drilling.

[937carrera]

the combined 3 piece thrust bearing should be 19.8+ 2.47 + 2.47 = 24.74mm

Cheers fir that. It confirms my suspicions that mine weren't worn.
Early one piece bearings didn't have the large diameter 0.4 shim. Only late had them. I'm as confused as you. 0.38mm is a lot. A whole shims worth.
You can try my left over 0.36 shim if you like. [THUMBS UP SIGN]

Thanks for the reminder, again, that only the late case uses the 0.4mm shim. I know that, but still keep on wanting to use it in calcs. I've gone back and edited my earlier post to use 3 x 0.38 for future readers. The remeasured endfloat was 0.28mm with 3 shims and I can see a way to get it down to 0.10mm, but it doesn't sit right with me that it appears that I have to use the biggest shims.

Time to see if I can find the dimensions of early main bearings, I'd rather not have to buy some to find out.

[itchyfeet]

That's a bit close for me to be able to identify where the extra web is, can you describe the location.

.

alternator bracket fixing, I think it was a failed attempt to stop the fixings failing, they still fail on the late cases.

[itchyfeet]

I put your pics up in the WBX group on fb where Marco hangs out and he replied he has never seen a case like that and he has built 100s of WBX.