Ongoing problem with DVLA

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123-jn
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Ongoing problem with DVLA

Post by 123-jn »

They will not register my new engine on my V5 without a receipt from the engine supplier or an insurance report or proof from the manufacturer. SPOT the Problem, home build engine 2.1 in a 1.9 case, so no receipt, no manufacturer and no insurance report was required. Even if I did approach a garage to do a report they cannot tell it is a 2.1 without stripping it down, anyone had this problem. And why should I pay a garage to report , that is why I did it myself!!! To save cash. I have given the engine number from the case and sent them pictures of the build. Still refusing to do it . Where do I stand?
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Re: Ongoing problem with DVLA

Post by Aidan »

As long as you notify your insurers it doesn't really matter if the V5 is completely accurate, hundreds (if not thousands) of T3s are running around with a different engine in them to what is on the V5, it makes no difference for MOT purposes so don't stress it would be my advice - and most insurance companies or assessors in the event of an accident would be able to tell if the engine is correct or matches the paperwork but you don't want to give them a get out so supply them/your broker with the relevant information it is unlikely to affect the premium, some might charge you an admin charge for registering the information on the file but once it is done it's done and if you change companies just make sure you tell the new one when you take out the policy

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Re: Ongoing problem with DVLA

Post by itchyfeet »

Thanks for the heads up.
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Re: Ongoing problem with DVLA

Post by 937carrera »

That's good advice Aidan.

Long reply follows :roll:

I decided to look at the legislation to find out where the rules that DVLA are insisting on at https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-detai ... ce-to-give. The source authority is from https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/19 ... ection/43C

Why do I do this ?......... because we are controlled by what the legislation says, not what some quango wishes it would say or what is convenient to them. I have seen this sort of stuff many times before. I'm not a lawyer, but have spent plenty of time with them and at times have had to resort to reading acts of parliament for my job.

Note that the legislation says nothing about what DVLA are saying. That's because the detail is contained in secondary legislation, statutory instruments etc, I believe that SI 2742 2002 applies. If you look at paragraph 14 at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2742/made it says:

Correction of registration document

14.—(1) Where the keeper of a vehicle believes that the particulars in the registration document issued in respect of that vehicle are, or have become, inaccurate, he shall forthwith notify the Secretary of State of the inaccuracy.

(2) Notification under paragraph (1) shall be accompanied by the registration document, unless it has been, or may have been, lost stolen or destroyed.

(3) Where the Secretary of State believes that the particulars in the registration document issued in respect of a vehicle are inaccurate—

(a)if the document has not been sent to him in accordance with paragraph (2), he may require the registered keeper of the vehicle to send it to him;

(b)whether or not he has received the document, he may correct the particulars in the register; and

(c)after correcting the particulars he shall, unless he has not received the registration document as required by paragraph (2) and subject to regulation 15, send a registration document containing the correct particulars to the registered keeper.


Note, nothing about certificates, obligation for the Keeper to notify and that the DVLA may (permissive) amend the register and issue a new V5. Technically failure to notify is an offence under s43 1994 act, with a possible £1000 fine. Under regulation 15 DVLA may require the keeper of the vehicle to satisfy him by the production of the vehicle or other sufficient evidence that the vehicle -

(a)accords with the particulars furnished when a vehicle or nil licence was last applied for in respect of it; or

(b)is the registered vehicle.
.

Again, no detail, so the simple provision of an invoice for 2.1 pistons could be acceptable. DVLA aren't set up to cater for us plebs doing our own work.

So the solution would seem to be send a simple notice to DVLA quoting regulation 14(1) tell them the register is wrong and enclose the current V5. The SI was introduced to deal with CO2 based vehicle tax, so they don't want people "cheating" the system, for us of course there is no CO2 issue, so changing engine size other than across the 1549cc boundary isn't an issue. Timing wise I would make sure the vehicle had a few months tax on it first, just in case DVLA drag their feet and you don't get the renewal notice.
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Re: Ongoing problem with DVLA

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

A small donation to their tea club and they gave me this which was accepted by dvla no problem: ( insurance accepted same letter - no charge)

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123-jn
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Re: Ongoing problem with DVLA

Post by 123-jn »

I need to find a garage with a similar tea club!!! My MOT garage say they will happily vouch for engine number but won't for engine capacity as they can't tell!!!
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Re: Ongoing problem with DVLA

Post by Aidan »

they can work out the capacity by checking the stroke length, only have to remove a spark plug and use a pencil or similar and turn over the engine to determine if it's 69mm or 76mm if it's 76mm then it's a 2.1 the information is published online on vwt3.com

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Re: Ongoing problem with DVLA

Post by 937carrera »

OBG's approach is the line of least resistance.... your garage need to read the words carefully "to my knowledge"

Alternatively, if you don't have that option send the formal letter & make it their problem to solve, not yours :wink: , at least until they want evidence at which point you just ignore their checklist & say here's the invoice for the pistons / barrels / crankshaft I fitted, as appropriate. If they choose not to update the register it's their choice, you've done your bit (& told the insurance company separately)
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Re: Ongoing problem with DVLA

Post by Rich Tea »

I had the same problem after my 1.9 to 2.1 swap. I went into the DVLA office with the receipt from the breakers I bought the engine from and a photo of the Van (with registration visible) from which the engine came out of. This was not sufficient and they refused.
Not knowing quite what to do, I popped down to my usual garage and discussed my issue with them. They looked the engine No. up on their computer (I think it’s the one they use for their emissions testing machine) to check engine capacity and satisfied themselves that that was the engine in the van. On this basis they wrote me a note on their headed paper confirming that this engine of that capacity was fitted in the van. I took this straight back to the DVLA office, spoke with the same woman and she was happy to accept this. All sorted in about an hour and a half, then waited 6 weeks for the V5 to be updated.

That was about 6-7 years ago, perhaps that’s too simple, but it worked for me, I’m not sure what I’d have done if it hadn’t have worked.

Good luck.
Rich
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Re: Ongoing problem with DVLA

Post by shepster »

If the garage will confirm the engine swap, so now you can get the correct number on V5, does the fact it's now a 2.1 really matter?

What situation would arise where the engine capacity is questioned do you think?

If stolen the engines gone and if involved in an accident do you honestly think an assessor is going to check the stroke of to confirm the cc?

Up to you though.
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