WBXlog

Big lumps of metals and spanners. Including servicing and fluids.

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itchyfeet
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Re: WBXlog

Post by itchyfeet »

Pistons and barrels complete now back to the con rods again.

The old ones have worn little ends and stretch bolts that need replacing
I have new but I wanted to learn how to refurbish these because sooner or later there will be no more new VW.

I previously made a tool to press the old bearings out and press the new ones in.
I'm lucky to have access to a lathe but I thing you could carefully hacksaw the old ones out with a junior hacksaw and press the new ones in with a vice, they need to be just under flush so to do that would need an old bearing filed to a flat edge for the last bit of push.
http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 0#p8159745" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The new bearings went in nicely with the tool, I positioned the split to the side which is the axis of least wear.

ImageP1050657 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

This is a 24mm spiral hand reamer that cost me £25 delivered

ImageP1050658 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

I have read It is most important to get the hole square to the con rod or more importantly in line with the crank.
With such a large reamer and such a short bearing it needs to be held squre.

I looked at the milling machine and lathe I have access to but I really wanted to find a method that anybody could potentially do in their shed.
I also find it's easy to over cook things with machinery.

So after some thought I came up with this method.

This is a 100mm long piece of 34mm diameter 3mm wall steel tube which is cut square, I did this in a lathe but you could do it in a chop saw with a steel cutting blade or perhaps get some aluminium or plastic tube. The tube was seam welded so I filed out the internal seam with a half round file.

The old bushes just push in the end, I used some electrical tape because they were a slightly loose fit.

ImageP1050661 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
This is nice and snug on the reamer and now I have a square shoulder to mate with the con rod, the reamer end is smaller than the bush so fits in nicely keeping it all aligned

ImageP1050714 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1050715 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr


next these need clamping together, I made some plates with holes for the reamer and holes for studding, it's all nice and tight and square.

ImageP1050716 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Reamer held in a vice and then you can turn the con rod, far easier than turning the reamer ( trust me I tried)
I used oil for the initial cut then removed it for the final ream.

ImageP1050721 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Once it was turning pretty freely I removed it from the reamer and checked the pin, way too tight
I drilled the oil holes and put it back.

ImageP1050722 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

I found that I have to continue rotating the con rod many times until it would spin a few turns on the reamer with one shove, then it was right.

ImageP1050724 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

I'm very happy with the result, it looks almost as good as the VW con rods, no play and smooth sliding of the pin
Just need to remove the sharp edges from the clamping plates and studding so I don't cut my fingers for the next 3 con rods :lol:

ImageP1050726 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
Last edited by itchyfeet on 06 Jul 2017, 17:13, edited 2 times in total.
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300CE
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Re: WBXlog

Post by 300CE »

Great work Paul - keep it up mate! :ok
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itchyfeet
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Re: WBXlog

Post by itchyfeet »

I tested the con rod in a piston and it still wanted to turn on the piston and not the gudgeon pin.

I tested the brand new VW one and it was slightly better but still turned the pin.

Perhaps it's because the pistons are old, not sure what happens after expansion but I'd expect aluminium to expand more than ferrous metal making it worse so I think it needs opening up a little.

The reamer is pretty much done so I used an old gudgeon pin with some M8 washers and a bolt so I could get it on the battery drill.

Some metal polish ( well T cut because I didn't have any) and its polished up nicely, much smoother.

I think the new VW con rods would benefit from this treatment too, if not you may end up with worn pistons and perfect con rod bushes!

ImageP1050741 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
Last edited by itchyfeet on 06 Jul 2017, 17:14, edited 1 time in total.
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mrhutch
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Re: WBXlog

Post by mrhutch »

loving this,,

and your workshop is far too clean, can you please at least have the decency to spread some grease over the vice?
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itchyfeet
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Re: WBXlog

Post by itchyfeet »

mrhutch wrote:loving this,,

and your workshop is far too clean, can you please at least have the decency to spread some grease over the vice?

Thanks

you may have noticed thats not my shed, ( pic of my shed vice coming up soon) works bench, lunchtime homers.
it's a brand new vice so why its clean :D
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Re: WBXlog

Post by itchyfeet »

I have the rest of the bushes to do but I thought I would do the bolts as I go.

The stretch bolts are not reusable ( and obsolete) , if you tried to do the torque of a standard bolt it would start stretching again.

I luckily have a dead early DG to take the bolts from if not you would need to buy them., having bought bolts and a reamer and bushes it's possibly not worth it at £112 as set but as I said soon we may all have to do this.

Stretch have long threads Right hand side of pic

ImageP1050729 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Pushing them out is quite easy if they come out together evenly, I always put nuts on threads if I am applying any force or you can damage threads.

ImageP1050732 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

If one comes out a bit first you need to use packers to keep it square, if you try to keep pushing off square nothing happens and you risk bending the bolt.

if one bolt comes out completely then again need to use packers to keep it square, which needs to be done in two or three stages.

ImageP1050744 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

If the bolts go back in easily you can use the other half of the con rod with nuts to pull them home.
ImageP1050740 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

if they don't you will need a tube to go over the bolt and then into a vice again.
Last edited by itchyfeet on 06 Jul 2017, 17:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WBXlog

Post by itchyfeet »

Just when you think you have got on top of it this shows up for beer tokens ( Thanks Chris)

It's a broken, stripped down DJ which has been stored in a garage that had a fire, the engine wasn't in the fire but it got sprayed with water so there is some corrosion on the crank.
The case is too far gone three snapped studs, at least three more that are badly corroded and a sizeable chunk of aluminium missing where a previous alternator bracket mod has gone wrong.

It's never going to get rebuilt like that but it may yield enough goodies to be worth changing direction :D

ImageP1050747 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
Last edited by itchyfeet on 06 Jul 2017, 17:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WBXlog

Post by itchyfeet »

A days work cleaning and measuring has yielded these beauties.

ImageP1050765 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Cam looks good enough to refit, 3 of the 4 pistons are good the fourth is dead with a big hole, a new piston is £100 so a set can be made.

Crank is rusty, I hoped it could be saved and after some polishing it looks good from a distance but journals are pitted, I think a regrind may be needed.

ImageP1050748 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1050756 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Luckily I have another crank, it has been reground on the big end journals 0.25mm under size but the main bearing journals are standard.

Here you can see it compared with a 1.9 crank, you can see the difference in stroke, DJ/MV behind, DG infront.
look at the three centre journals.

ImageP1050762 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

and pistons compared, DJ left, MV right DG behind, DG 1.9 being notably taller

ImageP1050758 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
Last edited by itchyfeet on 06 Jul 2017, 17:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WBXlog

Post by itchyfeet »

I dropped the crank and cam in the case today and by pure chance they are a perfect fit, almost no backlash and no cam lifting.
Strange because these were never a pair they came from different engines.
Also interesting this is a +2 cam gear and the DG crank needed a zero cam gear, same case so there must be variation or wear in the crank gear.
This means if you had a selection of crank gears you could try different ones to match a cam gear rather than swapping the cam gear.

Tappets look in excellent condition too after I drained the watery sludge, no dishing so I'm going to fit these rather than buy a set, as I will fit scat push rod tubes it's no big issue to swap them later if they turn out to be noisy.

ImageP1050769 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1050768 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

cam passes quite close to the crank!
ImageP1050770 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
Last edited by itchyfeet on 07 Jul 2017, 14:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WBXlog

Post by itchyfeet »

you can just make out green on this crank which I believe was blue that faded.

DJ cranks were marked red or blue ( and perhaps not marked if Standard but it's not clear to me)

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... s#p8157859" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Red bearings are available from Classic but the blue are not, from what I can see discontinues, I think everybody must just use standard bearings for the blue cranks.
The crank came to me with standard bearings fitted.

ImageP1050772 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1050774 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
Last edited by itchyfeet on 07 Jul 2017, 14:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WBXlog

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I swapped the new main bearing fitted to the DG crank off and onto the DJ crank tonight, same as before but there was a roast in he oven so popped the gears in after the bird came out and they heated up while we had dinner :D

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 5#p8157790" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 5#p8158247" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

then fitted the oil pickup tube back, I used a smear of Dirko HT (on the pipe so excess gets pushed out) because when removed the pipe moves around a bit so my thinking is it may not be dead round anymore. Dirko HT is oil resistant and high temp rated.

ImageP1050777 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

It took some beating to get it back in the same as it took to get out.

ImageP1050778 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

New stainless cap head and new copper washer that comes with the Ering gasket set, cleaned off excess Dirko with meths

ImageP1050780 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
Last edited by itchyfeet on 07 Jul 2017, 14:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WBXlog

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popped the other side cam bearings and the other half of the centre main bearing in the case

ImageP1050781 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

then dropped it on and fitted a pulley so I can spin the crank and check it all sounds and feels right, when this side of the case goes on it will be coated in Curit T and I don't want to find any problems then!!
Once Conrods are on I can't spin it.
All sounds and feels good.

ImageP1050782 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr


Next to clean the wax off the new conrods, parraffin is slow

ImageP1050784 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Oven was on for dinner again so I had the idea of popping them in and it worked well, the wax just rubbed off with a cloth.

ImageP1050792 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1050793 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

removing the nuts takes quite some force, they must be torqued quite tight for the machining process, never doing it by hand need a vice

ImageP1050791 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

shells in and aligned with a piece of metal and oiled

ImageP1050788 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

boted on to crank with cast in mark on con rod facing up and both stamped numbers on same side, con rod shown is piston No 2 on the side of case missing

ImageP1050790a by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

side movement is fine, this one just 0.2mm, 0.7mm is the limit.

ImageP1050789 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

as soon as I finish work each side gets covered to stop any thing falling into the case

ImageP1050794 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
Last edited by itchyfeet on 07 Jul 2017, 14:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WBXlog

Post by itchyfeet »

Once I was happy all con rods were on the right way up I moved the crank to the vice, 30Nm on the stretch bolts then 1/2 a turn, hard to do on the bench.

ImageP1050805 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

blob of tippex on the nuts so it's really clear they have done 1/2 a turn

ImageP1050800 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1050804 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

crank back in and now I want to fit the distributor gear, less risk of loosing a washer to do it now.
You can't put the washers on the shaft once the case is closed becuse they won't go past the gear so you would have to put them in first and that's risky.

While the case is split I can just lift the crank a bit and they slide in.

Get No 1 to TDC first, this is No 1 conrod, the cam followers are in the case side that's missing so they are on the back of the cam, i.e. compresion valves closed

ImageP1050816 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1050811 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1050814 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

fit dizzy to keep it there.

ImageP1050815 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
Last edited by itchyfeet on 07 Jul 2017, 14:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WBXlog

Post by itchyfeet »

cleaned mating surfaces and nuts with meths
coated with Curit T and brush, left for 10 minutes

ImageP1050827 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

check all bearings and thrust washer in right, add cam shaft cap

this M8 first then M10s, then the rest of the M8s check it rotates as you go.

ImageP1050831 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1050832 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

stole the idea :D

ImageP1050838 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

case closed :ok

ImageP1050841 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
Last edited by itchyfeet on 07 Jul 2017, 14:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WBXlog

Post by itchyfeet »

Not much progress this week, managed to twist my ankle so couldn't walk for few days :roll:
anyway better now, well enough for this.

Still waiting for DJ pistons at Brickwerks so moved on to the flywheel.

The one on this engine has a groove worn from the seal, it's right in the middle of the area so not much hope of moving the seal a bit,

Andrew from Campershack and Aidan Talbot both suggested speedi sleeves to fix this.
http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 5#p8154521" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I purchased one for about £30 but it's too long, it needs cutting down.

I previously tested cutting a beer can with a dremmel and it worked well so I took the plunge.

ImageP1050155 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

first marked up with 6mm score, permanent marker firs then you just need to scratch the marker, used dial callipers for this.

ImageP1050849 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Bent piece of metal and clamped it in the vice, crude but works.

ImageP1050850 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Got through several of these cheap cutting discs, must get some better ones.

ImageP1050852 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

cleaned up the edge with wet and dry

ImageP1050853 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

cut the rim, you may get away with leaving it but I want to remove it just in case it rubs the seal

ImageP1050856 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Loctite and JB weld were both suggested to fill the groove before fitting the sleeve but I opted for Dirko HT which is high temp and oil resistant.

ImageP1050858 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Tapped the sleeve on

ImageP1050859 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

peeled up edge with screwdriver and peeled off with pliers.

Be warned it's very sharp don't be tempted as I was to pull at it, got a nice deep cut which I managed to superglue back together :lol:

ImageP1050861 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1050863 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Happy with that

ImageP1050875 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

Bolted flywheel on with thrust washer and shims from the original crank, it's at the lower end just above 0.07mm which I'm happy with, no adjustment needed.

ImageP1050878 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
Last edited by itchyfeet on 07 Jul 2017, 14:27, edited 3 times in total.
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1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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