WBX

Big lumps of metals and spanners. Including servicing and fluids.

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ajsimmo
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Re: WBX

Post by ajsimmo »

123-jn wrote:I have fallen out with my oil breather and now have the breather inlet on the air pancake blocked off. My breather tower now feeds into a separator / collector can and vents to atmosphere. This has made it easier to control the Lpg mixture.
The breather hose on fuel injection models has a restrictor, so I see no reason why you couldn't do this on a carb. It may solve your problems, allowing you to reconnect the breather and still control your mixture. (I don't think you'd need the heated unit as fitted on the injection).

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itchyfeet
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Re: WBX

Post by itchyfeet »

123-jn wrote:I have fallen out with my oil breather and now have the breather inlet on the air pancake blocked off. My breather tower now feeds into a separator / collector can and vents to atmosphere. This has made it easier to control the Lpg mixture.

interesting, mine has the same closed loop system and I have to have it lean on idle otherwise the stepper closes down and no pull away power, I set it just lean by air fuel gauge, other than that it works fine with the breather.

If you had worn rings you might have more crankcase pressure but yours is a rebuilt engine.
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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itchyfeet
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Re: WBX

Post by itchyfeet »

removed the filler tube and fitted the oil temp sender, seems I have broken it because it now doesn't work so I will have to wait for a replacement to arrive before finding out how much better this mod is.
Looks like they may be standard after all, because there are loads of generic ones which look identical to this.

ImageP1090688 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1090686 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

refill was much easier.

ImageP1090685 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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itchyfeet
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Re: WBX

Post by itchyfeet »

itchyfeet wrote:removed the filler tube and fitted the oil temp sender, seems I have broken it because it now doesn't work so I will have to wait for a replacement to arrive before finding out how much better this mod is.
Looks like they may be standard after all, because there are loads of generic ones which look identical to this.

Finally got this new sensor in.

I tested it is a mug of hot water first and it was reasonably accurate about 5 degrees ish.

On the motorway run up at 70mph and it hit highs of 115 degrees, as soon as you ease off the pedal it soon drops to around 90 ( this DG has an oil cooler).

It's never been that high in winter or responsive before, in winter it would hover around 80 the whole time on a motorway run when in the pressure relief valve.

very happy with the result.

Imageoil temp by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
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1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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what2do
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Re: WBX

Post by what2do »

How much is the kit selling for????????????
Why would the glass be anything other than half full?

'89 panel van, 1.9 DG.

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itchyfeet
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Re: WBX

Post by itchyfeet »

what2do wrote:How much is the kit selling for????????????

I don't do this for money, I have job that's far easier and pays far better :rofl
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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937carrera
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Re: WBX

Post by 937carrera »

I'm curious about the fluctuation in oil temperature. I have seen intake air temperatures rise and fall very quickly on turbo cars, but never seen oil temperatures be so responsive. Is that what you were expecting ?

Nice oil pressure by the way :D
Last edited by 937carrera on 24 Mar 2018, 00:50, edited 1 time in total.
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
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itchyfeet
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Re: WBX

Post by itchyfeet »

Well it has an oil cooler so that may make a difference.
It's running on LPG with closed loop so it gets as much fuel as it wants which may make a difference too.

This is a VW recon circa 2002 and it looks to be in great shape still.

on the way home cruising slow in traffic it dropped to about 70 deg C

I think I'm going to male another plate without the boss. it will push the sensor further into the oil and reduce to cooling affect from the outside.
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1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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937carrera
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Re: WBX

Post by 937carrera »

I know you are happy with your setup...... and the last thing I want is to make you unhappy, but if the temps are correct I'm not convinced that those oil temperatures are that healthy.

I'm used to cars with oil temperature gauges. Some "air cooled" cars can perhaps be more more correctly described as oil cooled. Normal oil temperature would be perhaps 80-100 degrees C, and it is generally desired to keep temperatures below 105 as power starts to drop off when the oil gets much warmer than that, and then it can get very expensive. With water cooled cars, you can perhaps push to 110 but when you get to 120 you're generally cooking the engine as water temps will also have risen. Low oil temperatures are of course associated with more rapid wear. I would see 70 as being overcooled.

I did a quick google on engine oil temperatures and one of the first results I came across was this http://www.wearcheck.co.za/downloads/bu ... tech43.pdf Never heard of them before, but it seems a decent quality read.

I'm really wondering if the readings you are getting are accurate, though I read you did some testing before fitting the sender. I don't suppose you have access to a K-type thermocouple / temp gauge to correlate the sender / gauge arrangement. You could borrow mine, but I'm not exactly in the neighbourhood. Anyway, that's my thoughts, and as you say "I could be wrong". :)
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine

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itchyfeet
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Re: WBX

Post by itchyfeet »

With water cooled cars, you can perhaps push to 110 but when you get to 120 you're generally cooking the engine as water temps will also have risen. Low oil temperatures are of course associated with more rapid wear..

I wasn't at 120 and as I said there may be 5 degrees or so inaccuracy, 115 was peak and that was going up a long motoray incline at 70mph pretty much foot down so it does not seem unreasonable.

I would see 70 as being overcooled

I agree but I think it's being overcooled because it's still in the boss and not in the oil enough

I think I'm going to male another plate without the boss. it will push the sensor further into the oil and reduce to cooling affect from the outside.

I don't suppose you have access to a K-type thermocouple / temp gauge to correlate the sender / gauge arrangement.

yes, I have used it before to be more certain of oil pressure checks at the right temp it makes a big difference, get it hotter than 80, switch off, wait for it to fall to 80, start and measure pressure

ImageP1060864 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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itchyfeet
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Re: WBX

Post by itchyfeet »

Checked the temperature again today against a thermocouple.

I took the pic of the gauge a few seconds before the pic of the thermocouple reader, this was boiling water so the temp was falling so I think its reading around 5 degrees high but then the whole sensor is immersed and it would not normally be so perhaps it's pretty accurate when just the end in in the liquid.

ImageP1100025 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

next I marked the thermocouple to make sure it was pushed in far enough to be in the oil but not enough to cause problems

ImageP1100013 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

poked it in and I think this shows the gauge reading perhaps as much as 15 degrees low, I think this is being artificially cooled by the large boss, I suspect when driven hard the difference is less than when driven slower

ImageP1100015 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

next I will make a flat plate with an NPT thread so the sensor is poking right through.
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1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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itchyfeet
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Re: WBX

Post by itchyfeet »

While I was there I pulled the tower off again because there is still mayo, I think this engine has a lower barrel seal weep due to some damage when replacing a stud, if I'm right this case is scrap.

I cut the baffle off so I can clean it out more easily without having to remove it totally.

I will monitor it before removing the engine.

ImageP1100018 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1100020 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1100022 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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itchyfeet
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Re: WBX

Post by itchyfeet »

Thinner plate much better

ImageP1100030 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

ImageP1100104 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr
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Re: WBX

Post by silverbullet »

Of course, sump temperature has nothing to do with the oil pump discharge temps (the true temp of the oil feeding the bearings)

If you look at a MK2 Golf or an Audi GT Coupe the oil gauge reads about 120*C mid-scale and 170*C as full-scale hot, because the oil temp sender sits in the pump discharge on the front of the engine...

Oil should always be about 10 degrees above coolant: to boil off condensate from start-up and also any unburned fuel from cold-start that gets past the rings and into the sump.

:wink:

PS I always regard the breather tower as more of an oil vapour recovery device than anything else, but these engines were designed in the 1970's and we aren't running on the same base stock as Castrol GTX anymore

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itchyfeet
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Re: WBX

Post by itchyfeet »

silverbullet wrote:Of course, sump temperature has nothing to do with the oil pump discharge temps (the true temp of the oil feeding the bearings)


I have seen people adding temp sensors in the gallery but as you say it will be higher, I'm just looking to measure it as I think VW would have done, the spec is 2 bar min at 2000rpm 80 deg oil temp, as no temp gauge was fitted a VW mechanic could only have stuck a probe in the sump as I see it.

If you take your oil pressure reading with 80 degree gallery temperature you will get a higher pressure reading and you might be fooled into thinking it's OK when its not.

:ok
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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