2.1 WBX engine rebuild noob....

[sherlylock]

look closey amd the NOS cam has slightly different shape around rhe cam thrust bearing, flat rather than curved

Yep, I'd noticed that difference, and the longer bearing surfaces on the NOS cam.

It's prompted me to get the verniers on the lobes. (measured base circle and lobe lift combined).

Old DG cam - 38 on exhaust lobes, 38.4 on inlet lobes

Old DJ cam - 37.7 on exhaust, 38 on inlet

NOS DJ cam - 39 on exhaust, 39.4 on inlet.

Weird - was expecting the old DG and old DJ cams to be different!? The NOS cam is a millimeter different to the old (supposed) DJ cam.

Odd - surely the old DJ cam hasn't worn down that much?

E D I T: Itchy - from your WBXlog I notice there was a 1mm difference between the cams you had? Were they both DG?

[itchyfeet]

yep both DG but I only measured cam lift using a dial guage with it in a lathe most of the waer was obviouly on the peak because chamfer was worn away.

my 1mm loss says to me you would need to take alot off to reprofile it.

[ajsimmo]

Begs the question how much had to be taken off these VWH "New, Genuine" A/C to DJ reprofiled cams, and are they then correct after the regrind?
https://www.vwheritage.com/025109021b-c ... genuine-vw
I can safely say I'm not shelling out 300 sovs to find out!

[itchyfeet]

This is the pic you were refering to, clearly the majority of the material is lost from the top of the lobe, look at the chamfer on the new cam on the right vs the chamfer on the old cam on the left, chamfer missing at top of lobe

Now more worrying is what I have just seen that the profiles look different to me but it may just be an ilusion

[sherlylock]

Begs the question how much had to be taken off these VWH "New, Genuine" A/C to DJ reprofiled cams, and are they then correct after the regrind?
https://www.vwheritage.com/025109021b-c ... genuine-vw
I can safely say I'm not shelling out 300 sovs to find out!

Crashing in and not really knowing what I was doing I bought my 2.1 cam from Mecatechnic in France.....mainly because it looked like the same product as that available from Heritage but for just over half the price (with the exchange rate). Although no mention in the translated text of reprofiled Aircooled (although the lead time on order is maybe a hint at that)

https://www.mecatechnic.com/fr-FR/arbre ... 006616.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Doing a bit more online digging about Aircooled cams - it looks like the dished centre of the 4-rivet a/c cam is different to the w/c. Which mine seems to be....



So I've got a re-profiled a/c cam? Are there any measurements or checks worth making before fitting it (for future reference).

I'm probably covering a load of old ground here but this VW engine rebuild malarky is really new to me........lots to learn! (Head is spinning slightly)

[itchyfeet]

No this is not old ground, the number of people who have discussed WBX rebuilds in depth over the last few years on here can be counted on two hands, this is all great empirical knowledge, not the theory bollox, or VW myth.

Your NOS cam has a greater base + lift measurement, if it were reground I'd expect this to be smaller so maybe it is a genuine cam? says original classic parts on the description, classic don't sell regrinds

How about sending it to Andrews cam bloke and getting them to compare profiles... for the greater good

I have not found any decent data on WBX cams, this is the only thing I did find, (posted by Silverbullet) but no lift stats or base circle dims

http://perlindgren.tripod.com/wbx.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sherlylock]

No this is not old ground, the number of people who have discussed WBX rebuilds in depth over the last few years on here can be counted on two hands, this is all great empirical knowledge, not the theory bollox, or VW myth.

Your NOS cam has a greater base + lift measurement, if it were reground I'd expect this to be smaller so maybe it is a genuine cam? says original classic parts on the description, classic don't sell regrinds

How about sending it to Andrews cam bloke and getting them to compare profiles... for the greater good

I have not found any decent data on WBX cams, this is the only thing I did find, (posted by Silverbullet) but no lift stats or base circle dims

http://perlindgren.tripod.com/wbx.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yep - I'm all for the greater good. We should record exactly what the profile is before I fit it that's for sure.

I'm keen on giving the riveting a go but I'm struggling to find 6mm rivets.....I've made inquiries with a couple of companies but cant get past the minimum order quantity issue.....one company I found make 6mm flat head rivets that look and measure up the same as what is fitted. Unfortunately a £350 / 10k units min order! (I even tried the "I need some samples to evaluate a design I'm working on" line to no avail)

The only one I can find on eBay are under completed listings:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOLID-STEEL-R ... 7675.l2557" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sent a message to see if they can list more but no reply as yet. Are these the ones you bought Paul?

[itchyfeet]

yep thats where I got mine, I emailed him to see if he has more, if not I will give you some of mine, I only got 50 and have used some.

[sherlylock]

yep thats where I got mine, I emailed him to see if he has more, if not I will give you some of mine, I only got 50 and have used some.

Paul - any chance of a few rivets? Will cover costs obviously....as I've had no luck with the seller you bought from and haven't found any others to buy.

There are some others on eBay at 15/64" dia (5.9mm) but aside from not quite being the right diameter they have an 8mm head and are nearly a quid each.....!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-64-x-3-4-R ... SwFV9XyYRD" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[itchyfeet]

Yes of course Martin, pm me your address and I will pop some in the post tomorrow, only glad to help somebody trying this out, you need to cut them down, I made some notes on WBXlog.
I suggest preheating the riveting anvils and cam + gear also, when I did mine I didn't have a second blowtorch or a way of preheating easily and so as soon as you put the rivet in and put a tool on it alot of heat is lost, It's what I was going to do bsfore I got lucky with the DJ cam, need welding gloves if you do though.

[sherlylock]

Yes of course Martin, pm me your address and I will pop some in the post tomorrow, only glad to help somebody trying this out, you need to cut them down, I made some notes on WBXlog.
I suggest preheating the riveting anvils and cam + gear also, when I did mine I didn't have a second blowtorch or a way of preheating easily and so as soon as you put the rivet in and put a tool on it alot of heat is lost, It's what I was going to do bsfore I got lucky with the DJ cam, need welding gloves if you do though.

Nice one - cheers Paul - PM sent.

Do you reckon you could heat the rivet with it in-situ ready to clout with the hammer? (with the aid of a friend holding stuff in place). Presuming you could still get the rivet cherry red without too much heat soaking away into the cam and tooling.....

Would save losing any heat from the rivet moving it from where it is heated to the camshaft/tool/vice arrangement......

[sherlylock]

Starting to get interesting.

Carefully drilled the heads off the rivets on the old cam which has the gearwheel I need. Tapped out the rivets and removed the gear.

6mm rivets arrived from Itchy today too (cheers buddy - much appreciated).....so need to remove other gearwheel from brand new cam *gulp* and make up some form tooling to support/hammer the new rivets......

[itchyfeet]

Do you reckon you could heat the rivet with it in-situ ready to clout with the hammer? (with the aid of a friend holding stuff in place). Presuming you could still get the rivet cherry red without too much heat soaking away into the cam and tooling.....

Would save losing any heat from the rivet moving it from where it is heated to the camshaft/tool/vice arrangement......

Dunno, maybe with an oxy acetylene torch but a normal blowtorch would just heat the lot which may not be good for it or get the rivet hot enough I'd think.

I'd drill off the DG cam and practice on that first.

[itchyfeet]

Any progress Martin?
interested to see how your riveting went?

[sherlylock]

Any progress Martin?
interested to see how your riveting went?

Hi Paul, not a lot happening over the last couple of weeks engine-wise. Awaiting an order from VW classic for red crank main bearings so I've been concentrating on getting the van ready - (overhauled the brakes recently)......and also got distracted by buying a Danbury pop-top to go on the van......(completely unnecessary but had to be done).

Hopefully will be getting the tools machined for the riveting this week.