pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

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AlexMai1
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pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by AlexMai1 »

found another syncro near stuttgart, good shape on it, good price, the usual, its got a 2.1 petrol engine (a blistering 95 bhp! :shock: ). just wondering if theyre any good? whats the mpg like? relianbility? or is a turbo diesel a better bet?
thanks
alex

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toomanytoys
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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by toomanytoys »

Surprised nobody has jumped on this....
You will get both sides of the coin I am afraid...

Me.. I prefer the wbx to the TD
A good WBX is quiet smooth and reliable.. a bad one... Isnt..

Same can be said for the TD (apart from it isn't as quiet or smooth)

Buy the vehicle on overall condition rather than by engine.. bodywork takes more time and a lot more cost to sort properly..

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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by Peninsulakid »

Hi Alex

I'm with Si's comments on this.

Bodywork is far more important than what engine or "donk" as Winchweight and friends call it.

I have had a few syncros, 1.6Tds, 1.9 and 2.1 petrols and had three converted by Mario to 1.9 Tdi.

The 2.1 wbx is fine, as long as its still strong, but once it starts to loose performance and reliability then you tend to loose faith in it. Also you'd be lucky to get 20mpg especially if its a heavy camper.

Thats why I have had three converted. My doka is my daily drive, and I do about 15,000 miles per year in it so its worth the expense of the conversion. If its only a holiday/hobby vehicle and it has a good strong wbx then probably you'd never recoup the expense of the conversion.

The only other thing to consider is that there is far more torque in the converted diesel 1.9tdi, which is great off road and for towing but you have to have a good gear box to cope with the extra torque.

Horses for courses

Hope this helps you.

Cheers Rich
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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by silverbullet »

I read it. You said it.

Any engine can be bad news. Any original, unmodified wbx with a verified 100,000 miles WILL need new bearings i.e. a full stripdown and refresh at the very least.
Fit a convector-type oil cooler (aka radiator) and all your post-rebuild oil worries will be over.

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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by Simon Baxter »

If you get a good one they are okay, not something you could use everyday as it would skint you.
You can LPG but it's a compromise space wise.
Power wise the best standard engine and they are reasonably quite.
However, the TD is only 70hp you can afford to put fuel in them and they will run a bit of veg oil mixed in for when the fuel price goes back up, quite a small engine really and a bit over worked but a lot simpler than a petrol and you have a lot more scope for engine conversions as vw lego dictates you have a massive choice of engines that will drop in and bolt up.
2wd td is fine but the syncro drag cripples them a bit but how many people still run the 1.6TD? Not many, most have gone 1.9TD or TDI.
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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by silverbullet »

Of course if you want "good" mpg you are basically looking at the wrong vehicle.
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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by AlexMai1 »

the 2.1 has gone, but Im in light negotiations with a guy in the Netherlands with a syncro, decent body work, runs, drives all good, and a pop top which is perfect for what i want. problem is its advertised as a 1.9, no "L" or "TD" so im a bit in the dark, so ill ask tomorrow, would be pishing my luck at 12:30 in the morning plus time difference.
Peninsulakid wrote:Hi Alex

I'm with Si's comments on this.

Bodywork is far more important than what engine or "donk" as Winchweight and friends call it.

I have had a few syncros, 1.6Tds, 1.9 and 2.1 petrols and had three converted by Mario to 1.9 Tdi.

The 2.1 wbx is fine, as long as its still strong, but once it starts to loose performance and reliability then you tend to loose faith in it. Also you'd be lucky to get 20mpg especially if its a heavy camper.

Thats why I have had three converted. My doka is my daily drive, and I do about 15,000 miles per year in it so its worth the expense of the conversion. If its only a holiday/hobby vehicle and it has a good strong wbx then probably you'd never recoup the expense of the conversion.

The only other thing to consider is that there is far more torque in the converted diesel 1.9tdi, which is great off road and for towing but you have to have a good gear box to cope with the extra torque.

Horses for courses

Hope this helps you.

Cheers Rich

i read your post on the same rough topic, the talk of PD and WBX made my head spin, but i made sense of it. Would want a 1.9TD as theres a bio diesel supplier enroute to uni, and selling at 15p cheaper than dino, would pay off a bit quicker, its the cost which is the biggest factor plus the hassle of needing a different transmission racks up costs quickly. How much did Mario's conversion cost if you dont mind me asking, ive got some buffer cash for odds and ends needed doing should i get a syncro, so if it means i can have a more wallet friendly mpg then ill seriously consider it.

Simon Baxter wrote:If you get a good one they are okay, not something you could use everyday as it would skint you.
You can LPG but it's a compromise space wise.
Power wise the best standard engine and they are reasonably quite.
However, the TD is only 70hp you can afford to put fuel in them and they will run a bit of veg oil mixed in for when the fuel price goes back up, quite a small engine really and a bit over worked but a lot simpler than a petrol and you have a lot more scope for engine conversions as vw lego dictates you have a massive choice of engines that will drop in and bolt up.
2wd td is fine but the syncro drag cripples them a bit but how many people still run the 1.6TD? Not many, most have gone 1.9TD or TDI.
LPG doesnt appeal to me, a 20% efficiency drop and a £1500 conversion doesnt scream "worth while".

silverbullet wrote:Of course if you want "good" mpg you are basically looking at the wrong vehicle.
1970's designed lifestyle choice from a bygone era.

your probably right, seems like ALOT of unnecessary hassle just for 4wd, dont know if id actually get that much use out of it, any opinions of a 1.6TD standard T25 with a lift kit?

thanks for everything

Alex

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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by ajsimmo »

AlexMai1 wrote: LPG doesnt appeal to me, a 20% efficiency drop and a £1500 conversion doesnt scream "worth while".
Sounds like you've been exposed to some misinformation.
The WBX runs very nicely on LPG, often better/smoother than on petrol. Power and performance is often indistinguishable between the two with a properly installed and set up system (eg blos or closed loop kit), although the old standard open loop kit still fitted by some installers can be a little bit disappointing.
I have not seen anyone quoting £1500 for a single point conversion! Ours is £1150 all in for a WBX, which pays back in under 10,000 miles. So for all but the lowest milers, it usually proves worthwhile after all.
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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by ghost123uk »

ajsimmo wrote:
AlexMai1 wrote: LPG doesnt appeal to me, a 20% efficiency drop and a £1500 conversion doesnt scream "worth while".
The WBX runs very nicely on LPG, often better/smoother than on petrol. Power and performance is often indistinguishable between the two with a properly installed and set up system.
True, that ^^^ sums up my (9 years) experience of LPG :ok
Depending on the price of LPG I can be saving between around 30 to 40% on my fuel bills and I can't tell the difference in which fuel I am on when driving.
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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by toomanytoys »

I have been running wbx's and on lpg for 14 years.. done prob 200k miles
I don't run a camper, so the space issue isn't a big concern for me.. I have a twin tank setup on the doka and can hold 104L of gas.. hasn't taken away any of the practicality in reality..

If you want a syncro for the "look" and don't need its capability in reality, then go 2wd with some mods..

Syncro ownership isn't cheap.. Like I already said..

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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by AlexMai1 »

toomanytoys wrote:I have been running wbx's and on lpg for 14 years.. done prob 200k miles
I don't run a camper, so the space issue isn't a big concern for me.. I have a twin tank setup on the doka and can hold 104L of gas.. hasn't taken away any of the practicality in reality..

If you want a syncro for the "look" and don't need its capability in reality, then go 2wd with some mods..

Syncro ownership isn't cheap.. Like I already said..

thanks, thats a question i need to really ask, i dont think id Need the capability everyday, but id like to be able go off the beaten track when i want to, have had an offer to do Iceland in July, so that would necessitate 4wd. but you are right, it isnt cheap, and theres always ways around it, and i can also get one further down he line.

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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by ninja.turtle007 »

I wouldn't get to hung up on engine because once you see the cost of the ferry to Iceland fuel economy will be irrelevant. :lol:
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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by bikermike87 »

A 2wd with decent tyres, lSD or rear diff is a capable vehicle. I know this as I had my prop out for some time and still managed on some of the tricky areas I frequent. It would be good value to get a decent 2wd westy and make some subtle mods (wheels/tyres, suspension lift, LSD). You can still get stuck with 4wd, you just tend to be in an even muddier / deeper situation :mrgreen:
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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by toomanytoys »

bikermike87 wrote:A 2wd with decent tyres, lSD or rear diff is a capable vehicle. You can still get stuck with 4wd, you just tend to be in an even muddier / deeper situation :mrgreen:

^^WHS^^

Propper tyres make a massive difference, add in an LSD or difflock and it will go a lot of places..

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Re: pros and cons of a 2.1 petrol engine

Post by lloydy »

I think once you want a syncro there is no going back! I debated making my 2WD a bit more syncro looking, but I knew I would still be hankering after the real thing.. Lpg also didn't appeal (had it in a 2wd) a small tank takes up a lot of space in a camper, and I found myself always looking for fuel.
Whether you get a petrol or diesel, just accept your likely to have to rebuild or replace it.
Cost of Marios conversion is I think 4k +? But you get a brand new engine in that. He runs MV engineering you can look him up on Facebook and contact him.
People do it for a lot cheaper, but the engines just taken out of scrap cars and put in yours. So you could end up in the same boat.
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