EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

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Trundler
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EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by Trundler »

I recently ‘upgraded’ my brake pads from some low priced Ferodo ones to super-swanky EBC Ultimax. The Ferodos weren’t even half worn but they were squealing annoyingly and I thought I’d cure the squeal and complete my brake upgrades (I’ve already fitted drilled disks and braded hoses by Black Diamond).

The new pads certainly looked the part, with a central slot to aid heat-dissipation and a nice lead-in bevel to reduce squealing (hurrah). However, their performance is dreadful. I have allowed them plenty of time to bed in (over 300 miles now) but they produce more squeal than I’ve ever experienced before, from 30mph all the way down to a standstill. Even worse than this is the fact that they fade horribly under the slightest duress. Descending from the very modest heights of Darwen Moor is enough to produce alarming fade, with the pedal becoming wooden and unresponsive. I certainly wouldn’t attempt the descent of an Alpine pass with these pads!

Has anyone else experienced this, and has anyone any suggestions for a cure? (yes, I know, put the Ferodos back in!)
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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by Simon Baxter »

Brake pads have lubricants in, and a load of resin and stuff.
To increase performance they reduce the amount of lubricant in the lining to increase friction.
The trade of for more friction is more noise as the lubricants act to suppress noise.

You can either have quiet or performance but not both [generally] it's a sliding scale depending on brand as to the level of compromise you take.
I ran some Pagid fast road pads in my caddy and I used to bab my pants every morning for the first few presses as they warmed up, after that they were really good, but sometimes noisey.
The black diamond predator pads don't seem too bad to be fair, no comments thus far.
If they are as bad as you say maybe a call to EBC maybe in order? let them know, maybe a duff set?
We had our own made a few years ago, they were made with "1144" material by tmd friction [the company that owns pagid and mintex] and they were sometimes noisey, I actually have a set still in my westy, I like them but you can get the odd squeak from them.
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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by ghost123uk »

Tis a bit unusual though, I have not come across this issue personally and in ten years of being on here it has not been mentioned to my knowledge. Of course most folk are using standard pads rather then fancy ones. The fade issue is most worrying. If these EBC pads are supposed to be superiour they sure as heck shouldn't fade in normal use on a T25 :shock: The standard brakes on a T25 (assuming well maintained) are designed to stop 2+ tons of loaded "builders van", after descending a long hill, perhaps in a very hot climate, so for our modest use, they might be considered a bit "over engineered"? I have always considered them to be very good.

E D I T = I have just done a bit of Googling around (yes, I am that bored) and there are many less than complimentary reviews of EBC pads. Many folk complaining about the squealing. Funny though, this website is advertising them as a solution to squealing brakes :?

If it was me, I would send them back, get the money back and buy a standard set as per here :) (p.s. - "sporty ones" here).
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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by greasemonkey »

Did you put a layer of copper slip on the back of the pads?

Helps to reduce squealing a lot.

Also use some brake cleaner to ensure all surfaces are grease free, squealing can be a sign of contamination, especially as you've noticed they're not stopping you well.

The harder sintered pads won't start to work until higher temperatures, which also makes people assume they're not working. It's a big problem when people put performance brakes / tyres on basic cars and wonder why they're rubbish, when its actually because they're not getting the heat into them needed to make them work.

Organic pads will give you a better feel and stopping power in the dry, but the sintered will outperform them in bad weather, so it's always a trade off.

Unless you're going to be going mad though, I'd always stick to standard road pads that are suited to the temperatures involved with that style of driving.

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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by Trundler »

Thanks for the replies - all good food for thought.

I take the point about higher performance brakes potentially being noisier but the Brembos on my 150mph Alfa V6 operate silently so I don't see why those on the Syncro cant!

I expected them to perhaps have a little less bite at low speeds, being a 'harder' pad but certainly didn't expect them to fade badly when hot - that's the opposite of what I'd expect.

I've emailed EBC. It will be interesting to see what they have to say - watch this space.

If I don't get anything worthwhile back from them, the Ferodos are going back in, with a nice smear of Copaslip :wink:
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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by Trundler »

Here is the reply I received from EBC:

Dear Sir
I'm very sorry to hear you are having an issue with the pads. There are a few things that i would like to mention.
The first is the bedding in time the 200-300 bedin time was for the old pads that contained Asbestos new modern pads do take a lot longer to bedin it can be up a 1000 miles to be fully beded in.
The next issue is the grooved discs with Ultimax pads (i.e standard pads) but adding grooves and drilled holes you reduce surface ara on the disc.

The Pad its self does nearly all the braking the disc is just there for the pads to bite on. So if you reduce the surface area you reduce the braking. So for grooved discs pads such as the Greenstuff, Redstuff, Yellowstuff would be better as they have a much higher friction rate.

We do find on these vans especially the ones that are done as people carries people drive them to fast more like car and are hard on the brakes this combined with what i have mentioned above.
Push a new brake pad to hard with out making sure there allowed to fully bedin can result in the surface of the pad carbonising. Basically there is not enough of the pad surface making proper contact with the disc the area that does make contact gets to hot and burns and results in poor performance. This is common with people who fit new pads before and track day and don't give them time to bedin.
A few hundred miles of sensible driving will be enough to allow the pads to bed them selves back in and get rid of that burnt top layer.

Best Regards
James
EBCbrakeshop



Credible, or just poor excuses? :?:
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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by ghost123uk »

Trundler wrote: We do find on these vans especially the ones that are done as people carries people drive them to fast more like car
Bold by me.

He cannot even construct a sentence correctly, or use the correct punctuation, or even the correct words :shock:
Plus "The Pad its self does nearly all the braking the disc is just there for the pads to bite on." :lol: :roll: :lol: :? :roll:

Send em back, get a refund !
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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by greasemonkey »

Some of what he's saying has elements of truth but overall sounds like a fob off.

For a start mileage is irrelevant for bedding in i.e. 1000 motorway miles cruising at constant speed isn't the same as 100 town miles in stop start traffic, but I appreciate he just needs a guide to use.

He could be right that you have glazed the surface though and that's why they feel wooden. In that case though best thing is a gentle rub with emery cloth to take the glaze off the pad surface.

Grooved disc part is utter rubbish. I changed my kit cars discs to grooved and kept the same pads, and the braking is much sharper. The grooves help to clear out the dust etc so you actually improve braking efficiency.

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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by kevtherev »

Older disc brakes (the type fitted to ours) used a thicker disc as a heat sink to avoid over heating fade.
As the disc thins due to wear the ability to absorb heat is lessened, to the point of inducing fade.

Does removing disc material by drilling, add up to the same thing?
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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by dave friday »

I fitted some up-rated pads and had the same problem [in the Pyreness!! ]realy bad brake fade,was lucky to find a "look out point" to pull into [in clouds of smoke]
Im pretty sure told Simon about them.
Back on the standard pads now.
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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by mines a money pit »

Cant comment on these pads on a T25 as haven't used them. But had them in my last 2 polo's. Never got a squeak out of them personally. Only problem I can see with them is that they are really dusty compared to standard. Quickly made a mess of my alloys, which was highly annoying due to them being BBS, with a load of fiddly spokes to clean. Don't think i'll be bothering with uprated pads for the van now, judging by some comments in here!

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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by max and caddy »

I used green "pooh" pads in the past and they worked ok untill they rusted off the backings...however are you sure you caliper is not sticking on its sliders as that tends to cause squeal...ate calipers are not so bad but the girlings have a steel on steel pin and it tends to rust up..

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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by Budgie7 »

I thought TMD friction where a packaging company, so in other words, there could be any make of pad in the box, could be wrong , I work in a garage and IMHO I don't think you can beat Ferodo for quality.
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Re: EBC Ultimax Brake Pads

Post by The Bishop »

The problem is either. Ontaminated pads or contaminated discs. The sure fire way is to replace both but gnat will cost.

As a miumtain biker the main cause of noise is contamination of the pads and disc, have you tried disc cleaner? Mountain pads are obviously a lot smaller but you cal boil them to clean them.

But best to clean disc and then use new pads.
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