Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

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CJH
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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by CJH »

Incidentally, I found a couple of sentences, one from Bentley and one from Haynes, that suggest the behaviour of these tappets isn't unusual. If my DG hadn't been so well behaved in this respect I might be tempted to just live with it as 'normal'.

Bentley wrote:Intermittent valve noises are normal upon starting, sudden acceleration, high temperatures or high engine speed.

Haynes wrote:Note that it is also normal for the tappets to be noisy for a little while after the first start of the day, and when idling after a high-speed run. Fitting new tappets will not necessarily improve things. Experimenting with the make and grade of engine oil may minimise these symptoms.

Fot the record, I'm running a 20w50 mineral oil, which has just been changed after the first ~2500 miles.
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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by itchyfeet »

In the VW owners manual too but does not mean you have to live with it because most are fine.

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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by ajsimmo »

They might be taking a long time to fill from cold due to the 20w50. What's the reason for using the thicker grade option? Especially on a rebuilt engine, and with winter approaching. Have you already tried 15w40?

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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by CJH »

I wanted an oil with a high ZDDP content for its anti-wear properties to help the flat tappets on the flat cam, especially as a first fill. I bought this.

Image

But you could be right - I'd always used 15w40 previously, but I couldn't find any specs for the ZDDP content of the Lidl stuff that I'd always used. I guess the thicker oil might contribute to the slower fill time, but conversely you could argue that the thicker oil should depressurise more slowly, and I'm not really convinced that there's a huge difference between the two.

I'm about to take the van out for a run to warm the oil, then back off all the valve adjusters to give the tappets a chance to spring back to their natural position, so that I can re-adjust them either this evening or tomorrow morning.
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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by itchyfeet »

use camshield and add as much as you like to whatever oil you want
https://www.vwheritage.com/ac1093049-ca ... eak-in-oil" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have some numbers on a well known social media site as to how much you need to keep costs down, will look for it later

sorry FB is rubbish to search and I can't find it, I will ask again
Last edited by itchyfeet on 24 Nov 2017, 18:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by CJH »

Perfect - I'll order some of that now, while VW Heritage have their Black Friday deal on - 24% for 24 hours with the code 'Countdown'. Will need to look for something else to take the price over £24 though :roll:
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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by CJH »

When I started the engine this morning all the tappets were nice and quiet. There may be something in this extra pre-load after all. Made me doubt whether I should touch them again, but nevertheless I warmed up the oil and then backed off all the adjusters to let the tappet plungers spring back to their natural position. The trouble is, whatever position the crank is in, two valves will always be under load, and even with the adjusters wound right out the rocker arm still rests on top of the valve and therefore puts some load on the corresponding tappets. I may have to do this in two stages - once to do the six tappets that are fully unloaded, and once more to do the last two. I guess I could have removed the rocker assembly.
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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by ajsimmo »

I'm concerned that even with the adjusters wound right out you still have no clearance! Are they new heads, or used? I ask because valve seat recession would cause this condition. Another possible cause could be too great a base circle on the cam? Long pushrods? Anyway, you should be able to get daylight between them, then turn in to just touching, or you'll never know what you've got (as you're finding)!

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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by ajsimmo »

Just reread it and I might have misunderstood what you mean. Talk about over-complicated!!!
Follower plungers will spring back immediately on release of the compressing force, so just back them off and reset in order. It doesn't matter that two start compressed, and others are compressed as you turn the engine to T/BDC anyway.

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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by CJH »

ajsimmo wrote: Follower plungers will spring back immediately on release of the compressing force, so just back them off and reset in order.

That's the problem - they don't. The ones under pressure stay depressed. Even the ones that aren't under pressure don't spring back when I back off the adjusters - any pre-load that I had dialled in just results in the plunger staying at that position. That's why I've backed them all off, so that they have a few hours, starting with hot runny oil, to allow the springs to push the plungers out. I'm convinced it's this compression of the tappets that are left under load that leads to the noisy start-ups.
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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by CJH »

ajsimmo wrote:I'm concerned that even with the adjusters wound right out you still have no clearance!

ajsimmo wrote:Just reread it and I might have misunderstood what you mean.

Yeah, it's only the two that the cam is currently holding open that have no clearance. So it's not possible to leave all 8 with zero load without removing a rocker shaft.

New AMC heads and new TRW valves.
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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by itchyfeet »

oooohhhh thanks for the heads up when does the VWH discount end?
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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by CJH »

Doesn’t say - midnight to midnight I guess.
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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by ajsimmo »

itchyfeet wrote:oooohhhh thanks for the heads up when does the VWH discount end?
Bear in mind they are often more expensive than certain other suppliers to start with. And if you have trade discount applied to your account, inputting another discount code at checkout for one transaction can screw up your account settings, reverting you to full retail, and resulting in several time consuming phone calls to confused staff. Don't ask!!!

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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

Post by itchyfeet »

ajsimmo wrote:
itchyfeet wrote:oooohhhh thanks for the heads up when does the VWH discount end?
Bear in mind they are often more expensive than certain other suppliers to start with. And if you have trade discount applied to your account, inputting another discount code at checkout for one transaction can screw up your account settings, reverting you to full retail, and resulting in several time consuming phone calls to confused staff. Don't ask!!!

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yes thanks I have been checking prices.
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