Engine choice?

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philyoung
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Engine choice?

Post by philyoung »

The 2.1 MV WBX engine in my krankenwagen is poorly. Not terminal yet but is going to need major work soon. There are a lot of choices and I'm wondering what would be best in the long run. The main options seem to be;

-rebuild of the MV - keeps it original, standard performance
-bigger bore rebuild of MV - more power/torque, still VW, probably most expensive option
-2.0 AGG from a golf or similar, more torque, bit more power
-subaru power, more torque and a bit more power up to many torques & horses depending on engine

In the longer term will keeping the van closer to original make it worth more? Clearly as a krankenwagen converted to a camper it's never going to be as it came from the factory. I'm really not sure which way to go. I don't think I can afford an engine change and a gearbox rebuild right now or lots of extra brake/suspension work so H6 is definitely out.

I'd appreciate thoughts on the best way to go. First VW van I've ever owned, learning fast!
1990 LHD 2.5WBX Syncro Krankenwagen

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Post by ajsimmo »

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Last edited by ajsimmo on 12 Aug 2016, 19:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Engine choice?

Post by silverbullet »

At the risk of self-promotion... :mrgreen: I am sure that Pete Barr wouldn't mind you asking what he thinks of his 2.5 wbx and how it performs in his Westy syncro.

Not merely an overbored 2.1, but longer stroke too so more torque available. Seems to return around 25 mpg with confidence on Digijet.

Cost-wise about the same as a professional Subaru swap, if you include ALL the parts, services and exhaust.

philyoung
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Re: Engine choice?

Post by philyoung »

I've read through the thread about Petes engine SB and, I think your own. It looked like such a lot of work that I thought it would be very expensive. My van is with Si at T3volution, he's talked me through some options but I have to choose. I have a bit of time, he is pretty busy with other vans. What sort of price would rebuilding my MV to a 2.5 be?
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Re: Engine choice?

Post by silverbullet »

It's not a "cheap" option but then again fitting a Subaru with all-new parts isn't cheap either. How much does a complete fitting kit from RJES cost these days? Then add on an exhaust system

The MV/Digifant ecu should have more than enough compensation to accommodate the 2.5 as the compression is only 9.7:1, a modest increase on the MV's (alleged) 9:1 and that depends on which heads are fitted.

I only need a sound case and 2.1 crank, just about everything else goes in the bin: rods, heads, cam, it will all be knackered by now anyway.

The biggest downside that I can see with the Fuji Heavy Industries option in a syncro is that of the sump and engine protection. The wbx keeps it all standard (apart from the oil cooling system which they all need anyway) so any old-time VW shop will find it familiar and easy to diagnose any running faults with the ignition or fuel system.


If it's cost sensitive, you are probably better off putting an AGG in there with VW Lego but that will require a full set of JX fitting parts.

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Re: Engine choice?

Post by philyoung »

I can afford a Subaru conversion so if the 2.5 WBX option is similar I would be interested as that is virtually a new engine. Is there any info on reliability longer term?
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Re: Engine choice?

Post by 4x4 Bus »

The best petrol engine for a syncro out there at the moment is the VW 1.8 20valve turbo. I have owned and used 2.6 5 cylinder. 2.3 5 cylinder. 2.1 DJ and mv, 2.3 stroked waterboxer, 2.2 Subaru and 2L AGG and non of them can compete in performance or economy. To be frank the AGG is the worst when it comes to drive ability in a syncro. 2WD ok but syncro just drains its.
I am actually very surprised this engine is not used more in the UK. It is catching on in SA and is very poplar in the States.
The waterboxer suits the syncro but is old tech and heavy on fuel. When stroked even heavier and they don't like high revs if you want a long life out of them. Doing 100km/hour max will almost double the life compared to 120km/hour.
Just to make you more confused.

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Re: Engine choice?

Post by philyoung »

Yep, that's added to the confusion :D
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Re: Engine choice?

Post by silverbullet »

But then you will need to raise the engine hatch to clear the tall upright installation (plus an adaptor kit from Gilo in SA) and that will affect the useability of the van. It's all swings and roundabouts.

A lot of it depends on what you are asking the van to do, they are all at their best mpg-wise cruising at 55-60 mph and after that the fuel consumption increases dramatically no matter which engine you have. It's still a brick being pushed through syrup at motorway speeds.

philyoung
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Re: Engine choice?

Post by philyoung »

It's European spec so no diff locks. It's going to become a camper and will get used for camping/festivals and only mild off road work. I'm looking for a better torque spread to give more flexibility not especially lots more power. I'm not an especially fast driver anyway! I've spoken to Pete as you suggested Ian and there's no doubt he's very impressed with his 2.5wbx. A major attraction of that option is ending up with essentially a new engine that will only need regular maintenance. It's always nice to be a bit different too.
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Re: Engine choice?

Post by 4x4 Bus »

Would not use Gilo adapters for this install. They like to crack if under more load than the AGG etc. Raising deck lid. 20 to 30mm is needed and very easy to do. Have a look at H2o vanagon website they only raise 20mm.
Every individual uses their vehicles in different ways and need what suits them but the less fuel an engine uses suits us all. And for some of us emissions play a part in choise. And yes I also have a TDI. Syncro :rofl

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Re: Engine choice?

Post by youde4 »

I've just finished the 1.8 20V Turbo in my Syncro. Lent over at 50 degrees so the engine lid is still standard. It's transformed the drivability and even under boost it feels like more torque and power are available. More mpg too, but I couldn't put a figure on it yet as I'm mostly thrashing it everywhere in excitement, but I reckon I can get 30mpg easily if I'm not a pleb. (Tintop Multivan)

All in, I'd say (mostly new) parts and a very low mileage donor car come in at around £1500. Labour cost hasn't been a factor luckily, and it did involve a fair amount of fabrication and trial and error as so few have done it over here. I've got a strong 150k MV sat on a pallet waiting to sell too, that should help bring the cost down.

Ash at CoastVW has done the upright install in his Syncro which is a lot easier, apparently, but I wanted to keep the engine bay at its standard height. They're excellent and highly recommended regarding engine installations.

It's being remapped on Monday then I'm driving it to Spa for the F1. If all goes well we'll put the prop back on and re make the engine bash guards to fit around and protect the Turbo.

philyoung
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Re: Engine choice?

Post by philyoung »

Thanks. I'll need to look into the 1.8T option a bit more. I don't think Simon at T3volution (where my van is currently) has done one but I might be wrong. You're not worried that the power/torque of that engine will be more than the gearbox can cope with?
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Re: Engine choice?

Post by DSM »

Simon knows where to get the parts and info for a 1.8T install and he is more than capable :wink:

philyoung
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Re: Engine choice?

Post by philyoung »

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and advice. After more research and consideration (and raiding the piggy bank) I've decided to keep things VW and go down the 2.5 wbx route.
1990 LHD 2.5WBX Syncro Krankenwagen

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